RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Ancestry Addicted on Wednesday 28 December 16 02:44 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to be as general as possible.
Someone posted an ad on a genealogy site (not this one) asking for information regarding someone who happens to be living and is a close relative of mine. I happily provided the poster with relevant information about me, my parents, and the person they originally enquired about. I broke down several brick walls that the poster had ran into. They said that in return they would show me their extensive family tree and help me break down some of my own brick walls.
Now they are saying that I'll have to provide them with three divorce certificates at £60 each before they'll help me or even tell me how we are related. I'm annoyed as anything about this as I told them from the off that I'm a student.
They really don't need these certificates and I know that they aren't obligated to help me but they gave me the impression that they would be happy to do so. Now I feel duped.
Sorry but felt the need to vent.
Sorry if my writing is bad. English is not my first language.
Fleur xxxx
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Was the request for the divorce papers by private message or on a thread on view to the public?
Annie
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Was the request for the divorce papers by private message or on a thread on view to the public?
Annie
They sent it in an email to my personal email address
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Do you have all the messages exchanged on record as you may be able to report him & send the messages to the site Administrators?
Can you post the name of the site please?
Others need to know about these things to be aware.
Annie
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Do you have all the messages exchanged on record as you may be able to report him & send the messages to the site Administrators?
Can you post the name of the site please?
Others need to know about these things to be aware.
Annie
The website is called CuriousFox and I've kept all of the messages exchanged. Not too sure what to do
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I've used that site in the past, many years ago, didn't feel it was worth the fee.
However I think you should get in touch with them & explain exactly the events & the outcome, send them a copy of all the correspondence & explain you're not happy & feel duped & that you would like something done about it as it's not something you would expect on an open forum.
Annie
Added You will need to give his Forum name & email address.
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I've used that site in the past, many years ago, didn't feel it was worth the fee.
However I think you should get in touch with them & explain exactly the events & the outcome, send them a copy of all the correspondence & explain you're not happy & feel duped & that you would like something done about it as it's not something you would expect on an open forum.
Annie
Added You will need to give his Forum name & email address.
Oh thank you! I will do this. And I'll be more careful in future as well. Very disappointing, especially as they wouldn't even tell me how we're related. :(
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I had a similar experience although not asked for expensive certs.
I was in contact with someone, got chatting to find out our connection.
That person gave me access to their tree (my info. wasn't online).
I sent a lot of years research & certs. which cost a lot of £ during the time the tree was accessible to me but obviously I was emailing lots of info. & certs. & after I'd done that, the following day I decided to have a look at the tree to see what I didn't have & access had been withdrawn!!!
Not nice but I didn't let it worry me too much as it was a good lesson early on & taught me for the future ;)
Annie
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Let us know how you get on!!!
Annie
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Did they ask for the money to pay for the certificates or for you to provide the certificates?
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Let us know how you get on!!!
Annie
There is only one possible result, the list owners will be sympathetic and tell Fleur to chalk it up to experience.
She has already mentioned the request was sent by email (i.e. private correspondence therefore nothing to do with the list or forum).
I will give the following advice, we live in a time of technology where is costs very little or nothing to send digital copies of research almost instantly around the world; Unlike the past when documents had to be transcribed, photographed or photocopied and posted all which cost money or hours of work, rather than the simple copy & paste of today.
Yet people today complain of sharing research which cost a lot of money to compile, yes it did but you the researcher had that fun and sense of achievement in the process.
If someone promises you something but fails to live up to that promise you have lost nothing, even if you have sent copies of the research you have compiled over the years at great expense you have lost nothing, don’t waste time worrying about it drop it and move on with what you enjoy, researching.
Every minute you waste worrying about such people is one less minute that could be spent on enjoyable research, which would you rather do? ;)
Cheers
Guy
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Life's full of givers and takers, walk away from this person.
Going forward, I would also advise against providing any 'current' information (eg. information about oneself or living relatives) to anyone unless their bona fides are very well established.
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This isn't just an issue about who paid for certs etc.
Information has been exchanged about living people. I'm all for helping relatives fill in the gaps going back, but for closer relatives (even if deceased) I'd rather not over-share.
I've become very careful about "off the cuff" comments about distant relatives because I've sometimes found these comments/facts on a public tree quicker than you can say boo.
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We are indeed fortunate to have Guy on board he is indeed a man of 'Infinite resource and Sagacity' (courtesy Rudyard Kipling).
Take heed of what he says and walk away from it ..... time is precious ...... it is to me at 89 years of age. ;) ;)
Joe
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However I think you should get in touch with them & explain exactly the events & the outcome, send them a copy of all the correspondence & explain you're not happy & feel duped & that you would like something done about it as it's not something you would expect on an open forum.
Sorry, Annie, but I think it is pointless making such a complaint.
The site in question is simply one which aims to put family historians in contact with each other. There is nothing they can 'do' with regard to things said/said by private email which is what has happened in this case (reply #2)
From their terms & conditions We provide a facility other people can use to post entries and send messages. We do not check the entries made by users.
http://www.curiousfox.com/uk/pages/terms.lasso
As Guy has said, Fleur is going to have to move on....
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This person sounds like a bit of a knob (to put it mildly), and the best thing to do with knobs is ignore them.
In the future, be cautious about who you share your information with if it refers to living relatives, but don't hold back on sharing your research with others - making connections with others and sharing info makes it even more fun, and while some people are "take take take" and gobble up your research while offering little in return, you haven't lost anything so just forget them and carry on.
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The other thing that strikes me is that it is very difficult to get hold of divorce papers, most of them since the war seem to have been destroyed and I'm sure even if available they wouldn't cost £60. It sounds to me that, for some reason, they are more interested in the living than ancestors and I would be wary of giving this sort of info to other people in future.
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The other thing that strikes me is that it is very difficult to get hold of divorce papers, most of them since the war seem to have been destroyed and I'm sure even if available they wouldn't cost £60. It sounds to me that, for some reason, they are more interested in the living than ancestors and I would be wary of giving this sort of info to other people in future.
You've all made good points. They do seem more interested in the living than the deceased. I divulged some dates and information in all good faith and I regret doing so now. The poster told me that it's £60 each for divorce ceticates that relate to our living relative that they originally enquired about.
One of my friends seems to think that this person may even be a fortune hunter, as they've previously tried to contact the relative in question and had all their correspondence rejected!
As a few of you have said, I'll chalk this one up to experience.
Thank you for your replies and I will definitely exercise some caution in future. :)
Fleur xx
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I was about to suggest the same thing, Fleur, that they may not be related at all, but are just trying to trace living people for another reason. Why would they expect you to supply and pay for divorce information if it is also their relative? Ignore them, or tell them you are not interested and if they want to follow it up they can get the certificates for themselves.
In the meantime why not post your brickwalls on one of the forums on here, there are a lot of very clever people who may be able to help?
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I was about to suggest the same thing, Fleur, that they may not be related at all, but are just trying to trace living people for another reason. Why would they expect you to supply and pay for divorce information if it is also their relative? Ignore them, or tell them you are not interested and if they want to follow it up they can get the certificates for themselves.
In the meantime why not post your brickwalls on one of the forums on here, there are a lot of very clever people who may be able to help?
Thank you for your kindness :)
I'm pleased I'm not the only one who thinks that the whole thing seems a bit off!
Thank you again
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Fortune hunter had also crossed my mind, that's what comes with age or experience I guess.
Never mind Fleur, at least you know if you need help on here it will be freely given.
Lizzie
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The other thing that strikes me is that it is very difficult to get hold of divorce papers, most of them since the war seem to have been destroyed and I'm sure even if available they wouldn't cost £60. It sounds to me that, for some reason, they are more interested in the living than ancestors and I would be wary of giving this sort of info to other people in future.
No, only £10 from the court where the divorce, dissolution or annulment took place if one knows the date of divorce. The court will search 5 years of records either side of that date. (So the thing to do is estimate a date if it is not known)
£45 for a ten year search if no date is given.
£65 for each 10 year period at the Central Family Court the form D440 is required to be completed.
Cheers
Guy
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Guy
The request to Fleur is even more curious. Whoever asked Fleur to get hold of divorce papers knew that they were from the Central Family Court @ £65 each.
I don't know anything about divorce, but I guess from the costs you quoted that £45 covers a search through ordinary court papers, so £65 for Central Family Court must mean there were children and perhaps a custody battle involved.
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I will give the following advice, we live in a time of technology where is costs very little or nothing to send digital copies of research almost instantly around the world; Unlike the past when documents had to be transcribed, photographed or photocopied and posted all which cost money or hours of work, rather than the simple copy & paste of today.
Yet people today complain of sharing research which cost a lot of money to compile
Guy,
Quote from you,
"Yet people today complain of sharing research which cost a lot of money to compile".
If you had read the original post, this is what was asked.....
"Now they are saying that I'll have to provide them with three divorce certificates at £60 each before they'll help me or even tell me how we are related. I'm annoyed as anything about this as I told them from the off that I'm a student!
Does that statement not tell us that the OP does not have the requested documents (divorce certificates) i.e. it's basically blackmail in my book as she'd already given him info. & now not going to receive anything in return without the docs. which she can't afford & does not have
Annie
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Thank you for your kindness :)
I'm pleased I'm not the only one who thinks that the whole thing seems a bit off!
Not so different from a scam IMHO.
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When I'm contacted and asked for information, I give a snippet or two.
Then I wait for a little in return.
Then i give a little more! etc etc .. then if it comes to nothing, I don't feel "used".
In general I've been lucky - shared lots, and got stuff in return.
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Guy,
Quote from you,
"Yet people today complain of sharing research which cost a lot of money to compile".
If you had read the original post, this is what was asked.....
"Now they are saying that I'll have to provide them with three divorce certificates at £60 each before they'll help me or even tell me how we are related. I'm annoyed as anything about this as I told them from the off that I'm a student!
Does that statement not tell us that the OP does not have the requested documents (divorce certificates) i.e. it's basically blackmail in my book as she'd already given him info. & now not going to receive anything in return without the docs. which she can't afford & does not have
Annie
No it simply says the other person wanted Fleur to provide them with the three certificates. She may already have them for all I know, she was not specific about that. Fleur also said in her first post “Sorry if my writing is bad. English is not my first language.”
However you are missing my point, I was stating that the people today complain about sharing what they already have as it cost them a lot of money to get.
I was not referring to Fleur or anyone else in particular but rather researchers in this day and age.
If I wish to refer to a particular poster I use their name otherwise I am referring to people in general.
Cheers
Guy
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Guy
The request to Fleur is even more curious. Whoever asked Fleur to get hold of divorce papers knew that they were from the Central Family Court @ £65 each.
I don't know anything about divorce, but I guess from the costs you quoted that £45 covers a search through ordinary court papers, so £65 for Central Family Court must mean there were children and perhaps a custody battle involved.
If you apply to HMCTS for a decree absolute search, it will cost £65 for a 10 year search.
Regardless of the date, historic or otherwise, of the decree, all you'll get for that £65 is a copy of the decree which names the parties, the date and place of their marriage and the date and court when the dercree nisi was made absolute.
You don't get any case papers even with really historic search applications.
You are applying for a copy of the Decree Absolute not the stuff that goes with it.
https://www.gov.uk/copy-decree-absolute-final-order
You would be amazed at the number of people who do not retain their decrees once they have 'moved on' with their lives, and when asked to produce them can't, neither can they remember the court or dates.
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Hi,
I will clarify: I don't already have these things that they want. If I did, then I would have gladly given them the details.
Maybe I do not have the right to feel duped, but it's purely because the person said all along that they would give me info in return for me giving them info. I even gave them photographs of people who are now deceased.
If the person had said from the get go, "I want information from you but am not happy to share my own research with you", for whatever reason, then I wouldn't be as annoyed as I am now.
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So sad to hear that you have had a bad experience but sadly, you are not alone....I think there are many of us who have been trusting enough to share our research and documents only to find that the recipient has not returned the compliment. Learn from it and move on. Be more cautious in the future and offer a little info and wait for them to share what they have before giving them anything else.
Carol
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I agree Carol, the best thing is to drip feed - give them a tiny bit and ask for clarification of something in return. That way you soon realise if they are genuine or just trying to get information without giving.
However in Fleur's example, it does seem odd - why would anyone be that worried about seeing divorce information, rather than just take her word for it? If someone told me about a divorce, I wouldn't then expect them to produce the documents to prove it, I would get them myself if I was that bothered.
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I appreciate that under the T&Cs quoted here Curious Fox do not monitor content posted to their site, and presumably, still less emails between members. Nevertheless, the site has facilitated a contact between members, an agreement was made to exchange information, and one party, having already received information for nothing, has now unilaterally demanded expensive documents before divulging the information that they hold.
The fact that this unreasonable behaviour has now been made public, together with the name of the site concerned, may mean that the site owners would consider imposing some kind of sanctions on the offending party. The T&Cs do mention commercial activity and payments - also annoying other members - so I think it's certainly worth bringing it to their attention.
Arthur
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I agree Carol, the best thing is to drip feed - give them a tiny bit and ask for clarification of something in return. That way you soon realise if they are genuine or just trying to get information without giving.
However in Fleur's example, it does seem odd - why would anyone be that worried about seeing divorce information, rather than just take her word for it? If someone told me about a divorce, I wouldn't then expect them to produce the documents to prove it, I would get them myself if I was that bothered.
Hello!
The person in question was aware before speaking to me that our mutual relative has been married three times and divorced three times. The person had a rough idea of our relative's divorce dates. When they asked me if the dates seem correct I responded in the affirmative and they then said that they won't show me their tree until I get the decrees and the precise dates. They said to me that they need these dates for their tree and that they don't want to show it to me until they have them as their tree is not complete until they do.
They also said that they have contacted said relative in regards to their divorces and that our relative ignored their letter and a few weeks later hung (hanged?) up on their unwelcome telephone call.
This doesn't surprise me as apparently they started the telephone call not with an introduction, but with, "hi, I'm doing a family tree - can you please confirm that names of your three husbands and the dates when you divorced them?".
Thank you for all the good advice.
Fleur xxxx
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Fortune hunter had also crossed my mind
I have never heard that expression, can someone tell me what it means please?
Annie
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The person had a rough idea of our relative's divorce dates. When they asked me if the dates seem correct I responded in the affirmative and they then said that they won't show me their tree until I get the decrees and the precise dates. They said to me that they need these dates for their tree and that they don't want to show it to me until they have them as their tree is not complete until they do.
I'm sorry, but that sounds very fishy to me, why should it be up to you to get the decrees, if they feel it is so important to have the correct dates, let them send for them.
I don't know how close you are to the living relative, but they may not be very happy to have personal information passed on, especially as they have ignored letters from the person. If I were you I'd tell the person that you want nothing more to do with them and that you will not be giving them anymore information. I would also contact your relative and tell them that you have been approached, just so that they are aware.
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I've become very careful about "off the cuff" comments about distant relatives because I've sometimes found these comments/facts on a public tree quicker than you can say boo.
This has happened to me and I've seen it in other cases as well.
As a result, whenever someone contacts me and asks for info, I always ask first if they would please promise not to publish my emails anywhere. Data is one thing; once shared, it's theirs to put online to their heart's delight, but it's awful to find one's comments cut and pasted online or -- as happened with one of my extensive trees -- offered on CDs for complete strangers by a complete stranger (I didn't share my research with him, another cousin was extremely generous with my research.)
It was, and is still, a bitter pill to swallow.
Regards,
Josephine
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The person in question was aware before speaking to me that our mutual relative has been married three times and divorced three times. The person had a rough idea of our relative's divorce dates. When they asked me if the dates seem correct I responded in the affirmative and they then said that they won't show me their tree until I get the decrees and the precise dates. They said to me that they need these dates for their tree and that they don't want to show it to me until they have them as their tree is not complete until they do.
They also said that they have contacted said relative in regards to their divorces and that our relative ignored their letter and a few weeks later hung (hanged?) up on their unwelcome telephone call.
This doesn't surprise me as apparently they started the telephone call not with an introduction, but with, "hi, I'm doing a family tree - can you please confirm that names of your three husbands and the dates when you divorced them?".
Wow, that person has a lot of nerve!
Better luck next time, Fleur!
Regards,
Josephine
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They also said that they have contacted said relative in regards to their divorces and that our relative ignored their letter and a few weeks later hung (hanged?) up on their unwelcome telephone call.
Fleur xxxx
The living shared relative doesn't want to give the information out about themselves... that sounds like a good reason for not giving out the information about them.
I really don't understand how someone could ask you to purchase and provide divorce documents for them?! What planet are they on? Sounds very iffy to me, personally I wouldn't share any more information with them.
Sorry you've been faced with this situation.
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I've become very careful about "off the cuff" comments about distant relatives because I've sometimes found these comments/facts on a public tree quicker than you can say boo.
This has happened to me and I've seen it in other cases as well.
As a result, whenever someone contacts me and asks for info, I always ask first if they would please promise not to publish my emails anywhere. Data is one thing; once shared, it's theirs to put online to their heart's delight, but it's awful to find one's comments cut and pasted online or -- as happened with one of my extensive trees -- offered on CDs for complete strangers by a complete stranger (I didn't share my research with him, another cousin was extremely generous with my research.)
It was, and is still, a bitter pill to swallow.
Regards,
Josephine
How awful. :o
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I'm more careful now about putting things out there and sharing with others. I had websites full of information and images. Someone who creates records on Find a Grave who is no relation but has one of my surnames, copied information from my website without permission.
They made a lot of mistakes in the process and these Find a Grave records appear as hints on Ancestry. This person won't respond to my e-mails. As a result I've taken my websites offline to stop this happening again.
Blue
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I'm more careful now about putting things out there and sharing with others. I had websites full of information and images. Someone who creates records on Find a Grave who is no relation but has one of my surnames, copied information from my website without permission.
They made a lot of mistakes in the process and these Find a Grave records appear as hints on Ancestry. This person won't respond to my e-mails. As a result I've taken my websites offline to stop this happening again.
Blue
That reminds me of someone I've come across who created a record on Find A Grave with her 'best guess' of where/when someone was born, married etc. Her information has flown onto Ancestry, where numerous other people have used it on their family trees thinking it must be correct. I know it isn't correct, and it's been proved incorrect, but they won't update Find A Grave to remove the incorrect information because she 'doesn't have the correct information yet to replace it with'. (Due to the early dates involved and the movement of the person involved, it's very possible the 'correct' information will never be found).
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This sounds very fishy. I wonder what their actual motive is. Could it be someone researching someone's tree and being paid for it and avoiding spending money on it? It seems like extortion. I can't see how they can expect you to spend money like that. Could they be trying to track someone down in particular? For whatever reasons? It's very weird! Interestingly I purchased a marriage cert and on it it had details that both couples had previously been divorced and who from!