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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 01:18 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to find any information about my grandmother or her relatives her name maiden name was christina mary Costelloe and she was from a family of fish mongers from killrush she died having my uncle when she was only 28 on xmas day 1949/1950 and my dad and hes brothers were put int artane industrial school please can anyone help me I would really appreciated itB
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You've come to the right place to get some help but I'm not a person who can help with Irish records so I'll just say welcome to RootsChat. Stick around and others will get on the case.
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Search for their marriage here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
It will give you name of her father which will help you identify her in the birth indexes.
If you would also give your grandfathers name here ( if he is not still alive) then we could help with the looking.
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I may be wrong but given her age when she died, I don't think the marriage will be online?
I recently had to fill in an application form online for a 1939 marriage, not online...
I wouldn't have known where/when they married apart from an approx. yr had it not been for their marriage date/place being on the BC of their 2nd child born in Scotland.
Annie
Add, Welcome to Rootschat!
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Welcome to Rootschat.
She died where?
What was her married name?
Jamjar
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I saw a couple of 1941/1942/1943 marriages so was hopeful as the OP mentions brothers, plural, that she might scrape in to that period
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Maybe...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYK1-NP2?from=lynx1UIV7
If you Dad and his brothers we put into Artane Industrial School I assume Christina died in or near Dublin.
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Cert.
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Well done solidrock!
It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?
Annie
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Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite. :)
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Well done solidrock!
It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?
Annie
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922
I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
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Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite. :)
agree we need her married name to make any sure progress.
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Well done solidrock!
It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?
Annie
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922
I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite. :)
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I'm try to find my dads family he was put into artane school when hes mother died my dads name was Danny mcdonagh known as Danny boy he was put in there when he was 9 or 10 in 1949/1950 he was there until he was 16 .please if any body knew him or any thing about him please can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never knew anything about hes family or hes mom so please if anyone can help it would be very appreciated
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One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive - so there's a limit to what we can do.
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/DublinArtaneIS/?LMCL=kmBhuf gives a link to Barnardo's tracing service, which might help. Thereare other useful links there.
This might also give you a way in to records: https://www.education.ie/en/The-Department/FOI/Applications-by-Former-Residents-of-Industrial-Schools/FAQs.html
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I see you have given the surname McDonagh on another thread, I'm still not finding a death for Christina or a marriage, do you know when her eldest child was born and which county this Kilrush was in?
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One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive
Graham, the Op says he is dead:
please can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never knew anything about hes family or hes mom
Gadget
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One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive
Graham, the Op says he is dead:
please can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never knew anything about hes family or hes mom
Gadget
Missed that! But I hope what I've found will be a bit helpful.
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What is the profession of brides father on certificate posted in reply 7 by solid rock I cant read it .
Kathleen do you know your uncles names ? Could they still be living
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What is the profession of brides father on certificate posted in reply 7 by solid rock I cant read it .
Daniel Costello is a labourer.
KG
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Kathleen sent me more info by PM but I still can't find anything on the family, even a birth cert she has a copy of I can't find on the index on FamilySearch so I just don't know what's going on or what I'm doing wrong.
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What was Christina's husband's name from the child's birth cert? Is the cert for your father, Kathleen?
Helps to put the info on the main thread for everyone to see otherwise people can't really help much more with the amount of info so far.
Monica
PS: Welcome to RootsChat from me too :)
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You've come to the right place to get some help but I'm not a person who can help with Irish records so I'll just say welcome to RootsChat. Stick around and others will get on the case.
thank you so much
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Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922
I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
There are marriage and death records on IrishGenealogy for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1921. There are also birth records on IG for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1918.
KG
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Well done solidrock!
It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?
Annie
GRONI have marriage records on-line for Northern Ireland up to today's date in December 1944.
KG
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I'm try to find my dads family he was put into artane school when hes mother died my dads name was Danny mcdonagh known as Danny boy he was put in there when he was 9 or 10 in 1949/1950 he was there until he was 16 .please if any body knew him or any thing about him please can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never knew anything about hes family or hes mom so please if anyone can help it would be very appreciated
How sure are you of the dates, because if he was 9 or 10 when his Mother died, then surely he would have remembered something about her, his Father, and possible aunts, uncles, grandparents?
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Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922
I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
There are marriage and death records on IrishGenealogy for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1921. There are also birth records on IG for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1918.
KG
No there isn't, they are Ireland records, Northern Ireland didn't exist pre 1922
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I tried to find some trace of a Costello fishmonger in Kilrush Co. Clare but I'm not having any luck.
Kathleen has been give a different surname for Christina's husband so either Danial McDonagh or McDonald.
I need a break.
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I tried to find some trace of a Costello fishmonger in Kilrush Co. Clare but I'm not having any luck.
Kathleen has been give a different surname for Christina's husband so either Danial McDonagh or McDonald.
I need a break.
thank you for all your help sinann you are really kind
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I wonder if Donaugh could be a second marriage or a named father .
If Joseph Cole was her first husband maybe the other sons have his surname .
If that is the right Mary Christine C
In reply 7 it means that she may have named Daniel after her own father .
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I don't think the Cole marriage is her, she was said to be 28 when she died in 1949/50 and One of her son's was born 1940 so it's unlikely she had an earlier marriage.
If the information is coming from children who lost their mother quite young then had to endure Artane errors are to be expected, which may be why it proving so difficult to find any supporting records.
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What is the spelling of your father's surname on your BC & your parents MC & who is named as his father?
Do you have your father's BC, what details are on it?
Annie
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What is the spelling of your father's surname on your BC & your parents MC & who is named as his father?
Do you have your father's BC, what details are on it?it says that hes mothers name was christina mary Costelloe and hes dads name was dan mcdonagh
Annie
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I don't think the Cole marriage is her, she was said to be 28 when she died in 1949/50 and One of her son's was born 1940 so it's unlikely she had an earlier marriage.
If the information is coming from children who lost their mother quite young then had to endure Artane errors are to be expected, which may be why it proving so difficult to find any supporting records.
that's so true he was so young and so was hes brothers they didn't know anything about each other for years
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I think you best bet is to contact the Christian Brothers to see what records survive about the boys from Artane
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677364.0
See the address on reply #2
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I wonder if Donaugh could be a second marriage or a named father .
If Joseph Cole was her first husband maybe the other sons have his surname .
If that is the right Mary Christine C
In reply 7 it means that she may have named Daniel after her own father .
well hes dad was called dan mcdonagh that's what it says on hes birt cert
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Kathleen,
Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?
This all helps
Heywood
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Kathleen,
Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?
This all helps
my dad was born in salthill in galway
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Kathleen sent me more info by PM but I still can't find anything on the family, even a birth cert she has a copy of I can't find on the index on FamilySearch so I just don't know what's going on or what I'm doing wrong.
I'm so grateful sinann for you and everyones help it is a big mistrey some one some where had to know my granmothers family just trying everything and I'm just getting nothing on her
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Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?
On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
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That looks a promising little thread end for Christina, Sinann ;) Well done!
Monica
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Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?
On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
thank you so so much sinann this may well be her what is her mums name I will nead this to order her birt cert
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It doesn't give the mother's name.
Can you see the form on the link I gave
See Column 5. Year Quarter Volume Page Number
all that information (except Page number) is on FamlySearch link.
Also fill in Column 1,2 and 3
They should be able to send you a photocopy of the cert.
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If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W
You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.
Monica
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If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W
You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.
Monica
thank you so much monica
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I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D
Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG
Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better :-\
Monica
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I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D
Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG
Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better :-\
Monica
thank you monica it may well be them but dad always said her name was Christina
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Sorry ::) Sometimes get my Catherines and Christinas in a mess! Forget about that entry...
I had been trying to find a bride to match to this marriage www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG
Added: A/try do have a list of brides and grooms' names for this entry and nothing matching for Christina on this entry.
Monica
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Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?
On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
thank you so much sinann I think you might of found my granmother this means the world to me I really cant thank you enough
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Sorry ::) Sometimes get my Catherines and Christinas in a mess! Forget about that entry...
I had been trying to find a bride to match to this marriage www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG
Added: A/try do have a list of brides and grooms' names for this entry and nothing matching for Christina on this entry.
Monica
thank you monica for your help I really appreciate it I just cant understand why there not there confusing alot
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Did your Dad know what happened to his father following his mum's death and everything that happened afterwards?
Monica
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If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W
You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.
Monica
thank you monica this may well be him it's very possible I think
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Did your Dad know what happened to his father following his mum's death and everything that happened afterwards?
Monica
I know very little only that my grandfather moved to carlow dont know much about him dad said he never forgave him for putting him and hes brothers into artane school he said the abuse he suffered was extremely terrible in there .I would love to find someone who knew him in there .
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I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D
Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG
Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better :-\
Monica
I'm on iPad so I can't see the FamilySearch records but just to remind you marriage Certs up to 1943 are free to view on Irish Genealogy
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I know very little only that my grandfather moved to carlow dont know much about him dad said he never forgave him for putting him and hes brothers into artane school he said the abuse he suffered was extremely terrible in there .I would love to find someone who knew him in there .
Have you considered putting a letter in the local newspaper asking if anyone was in Artane at the same time as your Father? Also see if there is a facebook group of the local area, and post there.
Does Artane School itself have a facebook group or website such as 'Children sent to Artane'?
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I know very little only that my grandfather moved to carlow dont know much about him dad said he never forgave him for putting him and hes brothers into artane school he said the abuse he suffered was extremely terrible in there .I would love to find someone who knew him in there .
Have you considered putting a letter in the local newspaper asking if anyone was in Artane at the same time as your Father? Also see if there is a facebook group of the local area, and post there.
Does Artane School itself have a facebook group or website such as 'Children sent to Artane'?
that's a good idea thank you
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Kathleen,
Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?
This all helps
my dad was born in salthill in galway
I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.
Kathleen,
I asked earlier for details re your dad’s birth certificate. Do you have the civil certificate?
The information should give the following:
His name - Dan McDonagh - is that what it says?
Date and place of birth - you have Salthill but when?
Name and dwelling place of his father - you have Dan McDonagh
Name and surname and maiden name of mother - it should therefore say Christina Mary McDonagh formerly Costelloe according to the information you have given us
Rank or profession of father - what was Dan snr’s occupation?
The informant of the birth
These details might help find the parents.
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I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.
Can't find the marriage, or the death or the son's birth in Salthill (Galway) in the index on FamilySearch (born 1940 btw) there are a few McDonagh/Costello births but no Daniel.
Which is way I wondered if it was a baptism cert.
I think it would also be a good idea to contact the Christian Brothers re Artane. They may have information on the parents.
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Hi Sinann,
I was thinking on similar lines. I wonder if the birth information is from Artane records - I agree re contact the Brothers if there are available records.
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Do we know the name of the brother/uncle, as it might be easier to find, or attack the problem from a different direction?
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Kathleen, just got my uncle's birth cert and its saying hes dads name is dan McDonnell it's all not making much sense
Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?
This all helps
my dad was born in salthill in galway
I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.
Kathleen,
I asked earlier for details re your dad’s birth certificate. Do you have the civil certificate?
The information should give the following:
His name - Dan McDonagh - is that what it says?
Date and place of birth - you have Salthill but when?
Name and dwelling place of his father - you have Dan McDonagh
Name and surname and maiden name of mother - it should therefore say Christina Mary McDonagh formerly Costelloe according to the information you have given us
Rank or profession of father - what was Dan snr’s occupation?
The informant of the birth
These details might help find the parents.
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Do we know the name of the brother/uncle, as it might be easier to find, or attack the problem from a different direction?
I have just got hold of my uncle Joseph's birt cert and its saying he was born july 1946 to a dan McDonnell and a Christina McDonnell' gormley Costello I'm so confused
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You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?
Where was the birth, please?
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There is a birth in Tralee with those details.
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Here’s a death that almost fits the facts, except for the name!
And the cause of death!
And the date. Not Xmas day.
It’s the only Mary McDon* who was age 28
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Who was informant on your father & brother's birth certs?
Was the informant the same for both & do the signatures match?
Does both certs. state 'formerly' for mother which would indicate they were married?
Annie
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You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?
Where was the birth, please?
that was my youngest uncle she died having there was three brothers how do I up load my uncles birth cert on here please
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Here’s a death that almost fits the facts, except for the name!
And the cause of death!
And the date. Not Xmas day.
It’s the only Mary McDon* who was age 28
it is very similar to her just cant understand why theres nothing about her any where it's very weird
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You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?
If illiterate the name would be written according to what was thought/heard?
Many people who were illiterate could actually sign their name although often it was done for them.
Annie
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Just helping Kathleen to add a clip from her Uncle Joseph's 1946 birth cert. Left off all the headings, but column 7 is for occupation. Linker? Can't make it out. Added, Tinker and no fixed abode would fit for Dan McD Snr.?
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Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:
C T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South
Volume: 2
Page: 688
Monica
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Thanks Monica...
"No fixed abode", described as 'Tinker' & no occupation recorded i.e. times would be hard, even worse when Christina passed away & probably felt the children would be better looked after at Artane?
Annie
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An insight of the times (1946) a very sad story...
https://www.joe.ie/life-style/rte-documentary-unmarried-mother-637242
Annie
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I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
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I agree sinaan
I'm following this story with interest and admiring all your detective work .
Now we know the uncles names maybe someone will be able to find if they had children .
Do we know if Dan senior stayed in Ireland ? It's getting to be hard to follow a summary of known facts might help .I'm not volunteering because my typing is too bad .
But will have a look on ancestry trees for Joseph and Christopher
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Brigid yes, the detective work as usual has been great, it seems the spelling of the surname was/is the stumbling block.
With the different spellings uncovered the death posted by Mckha looks quite likely?
Annie
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Are the people whose birth info was posted in replies #69 and 70 alive? Just thinking of RootsChat's no living person policy.
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That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina. Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?
Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?
Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?
Have you tried this site?
https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
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A sum up is a good idea.
This is as I've picked the story up, open to correction.
Christina Mary Costello, believed born 1921/22 the daughter of a fishmonger from Kilrush Co. Clare married Daniel McDonagh/McDonald a Tinker before 1940
First son Dan (deceased) born 1940 in Salthill Galway
Second son born 1946 Tralee
Third son born 1949/50 at Christmas, Christina died, believed to have occurred somewhere in Kerry.
Sons sent to Artane
Daniel last know in Carlow.
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Sinann:
Is she definitely Christina Mary, (also spelling McDonnell for Dan)?
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Not sure if this has been mentioned before but I found this on the www.childrenshomes.org.uk site on the Artane Industrial School page
Barnardo's Origins Tracing Service — for people (and their families) who spent all or part of their childhood in an Irish Industrial School and are interested in tracing information about their parents, siblings or other relatives.
Irish Petty Sessions Court Registers 1828-1912 (available online to subscribers of findmypast.co.uk) include details of committals to Irish Reformatories and Industrial Schools.
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Sinann:
Is she definitely Christina Mary, (also spelling McDonnell for Dan)?
I don't know, that appears to be how her children knew her, she is just Christina on that cert but perhaps she preferred Christina so swapped the order of her names.
If she was Mary Christina than her death may be in the index as Mary, I had looked for a Mary McDonagh, can't remember now if I tried the McDonald or McDonnell names.
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Yes, I just wanted a sum up with definite facts, and the possible extra bits as such. If one of the birth certificates had both names then I would be happier, but we do not know that?
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I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand what your saying but why wouldn't he look for them it's just so unfair
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That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina. Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?
Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?
Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?
Have you tried this site?
https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
it just says Christina and dads name on hes birth cert is Daniel mcdonagh
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I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand what your saying but why wouldn't he look for them it's just so unfair
I'm always wary of judging the parents in these suitations, he may well have just abandoned his children to the state and gone on his merry way, or he may have missed them every day but didn't have the means or know how to get them back, or he have believed they were better off without him. The state/church rode rough shod over parents back than once they had control a lone father wouldn't have much chance against them.
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That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina. Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?
Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?
Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?
Have you tried this site?
https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
it just says Christina and dads name on hes birth cert is Daniel mcdonagh
and thank you for the link I just text them so hopefully they wil text back
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Can you tell us exactly what is written on your dad's BC, everything how it's written please?
Annie
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Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:
Christopher T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South
Volume: 2
Page: 688
I sorry for the late reply monica I'm still trying to figure out how to reply on this but thank you so so much that must be my granmother and uncle dad most of getting the xmas day date wrong
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I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand what your saying but why wouldn't he look for them it's just so unfair
I'm always wary of judging the parents in these suitations, he may well have just abandoned his children to the state and gone on his merry way, or he may have missed them every day but didn't have the means or know how to get them back, or he have believed they were better off without him. The state/church rode rough shod over parents back than once they had control a lone father wouldn't have much chance against them.
I suppose It must of been so hard for them all
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Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:
Christopher T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South
Volume: 2
Page: 688
I sorry for the late reply monica I'm still trying to figure out how to reply on this but thank you so so much that must be my granmother and uncle dad most of getting the xmas day date wrong
can you tell me were you found it on
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Kathleen, that index entry came from Ancestry's Irish statutory BMD index databases.
Monica
PS: Maybe worth you getting a copy of this to see what it says? Then you will have official records for all 3 brothers. No sisters?
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Kathleen, that index entry came from Ancestry's Irish statutory BMD index databases.
Monica
PS: Maybe worth you getting a copy of this to see what it says? Then you will have official records for all 3 brothers. No sisters?
thank you monica so much for your help with this matter I will try I think that was my uncle Christopher and now I am so confused I have just herd that he was born on the 16 of july 1950 so that would mean my granmother didn't die on xmas day like my dad always thought
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Kathleen you can search for these records on FamilySearch
This is Christopher
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1DT-ZWP
This is the search page https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347
Did you know the last child was called Christopher? I though you said he was Joseph.
You won't know for sure if this Christopher is yours until you get the certificate.
If the child born at the time of Christina's death died before it was born (stillborn) it's won't be registered at all and as Christina doesn't appear to have a death cert than it doesn't look like she was in a hospital.
If the child survived and does have a birth cert that you would expect Christina to have a death cert as well as they would likely have been registered at the same time.
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Children may remember what they are told.i imagine a scenario where they didn't see their sick mother after the last baby and were told around Christmas that she.d died .or they were taken away one Christmas before she died either way it must have been very traumatic for them all.
Kathleen don't worry if the paper trail doesn't always fit the stories you were told ..mistakes are made when facts are passed on orally or transcribed from documents to computers . It may take a while to unravel but I'm sure you'll get some more answers eventually .
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Children may remember what they are told.i imagine a scenario where they didn't see their sick mother after the last baby and were told around Christmas that she.d died .or they were taken away one Christmas before she died either way it must have been very traumatic for them all.
Kathleen don't worry if the paper trail doesn't always fit the stories you were told ..mistakes are made when facts are passed on orally or transcribed from documents to computers . It may take a while to unravel but I'm sure you'll get some more answers eventually .
yes it must of been very hard on her sons not knowing were there mother was and why they were put into artane school it is a very sad story that hopefully I can unravel soon
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A stage at a time always with this type of research.
I think that 1950 birth would be where I would look to next to confirm it is connected and if so, what other details it may contain that may help.
Monica
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I agree with Monica - check that 1950 birth.
I thought the death of Mary McDonald posted earlier might have been Christina but there is no husband mentioned on the death certificate so no way to check.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04517/4189104.pdf
Added
I just checked Glasnevin burial records and there is a burial for that lady in the indexes but there is a charge for further details.
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/
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A stage at a time always with this type of research.
I think that 1950 birth would be where I would look to next to confirm it is connected and if so, what other details it may contain that may help.
Monica
I have just found out that my grandmothers date of birth was 1/1/1921 and her parents names were john Costello and a Elizabeth Cunningham and my granmother was born in kilkee not killrush and I also found out that my uncle Christopher's full name was Christopher Thomas McDonald born 16 july 1950 alots not adding up of what dad said
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This is the 1918 marriage of John Costello, soldier, 48 yrs widower and Elizabeth Foran, 31 yrs, widow. Her father was Frederick Cunningham, deceased.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09731/5530871.pdf
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This is the 1918 marriage of John Costello, soldier, 48 yrs widower and Elizabeth Foran, 31 yrs, widow. Her father was Frederick Cunningham, deceased.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09731/5530871.pdf
I wonder were they from kilkee and how my kids did they have
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It's free for anyone to look at that entry, Kathleen, you just have to register first then you can follow heywood's link. The church was in Kilrush & the witnesses were Frank Keane & Nellie Nevin.
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With Haywood's details from the likely 1918 marriage for Christina's parents, this birth entry https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01525/1618890.pdf could be from Elizabeth Cunningham's first marriage. Father here showing as a John Forham. Birth of daughter in Kilrush.
Monica
Added: I think this Christina may have died in 1913. A Christina Forhan, aged 1 died in Kilrush in the first quarter of 1913. Can't see an image to be more certain.
Added 2: Should have looked better! Death for toddler Christina here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05332/4484431.pdf From the description, only mother likely mentioned (charwoman's child). John Forhan deceased by now?
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I have just found out that my grandmothers date of birth was 1/1/1921 and her parents names were john Costello and a Elizabeth Cunningham and my granmother was born in kilkee not killrush and I also found out that my uncle Christopher's full name was Christopher Thomas McDonald born 16 july 1950 alots not adding up of what dad said
Where did this information come from.
After 1918 is too late for births on Irish Genealogy.
The Kilrush index on Family Search doesn't give mother maiden name but there is a Christina Costello in Jan - March 1921 which fits with the date you were given.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
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Cert.
That is so so weird I dont know wat to think with that
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I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
hi sinann I found out that my grandfather settled in bagenalstown in carlow after my mother died and married a bridget Murphy on the 13 of January 1954