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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 01:18 GMT (UK)

Title: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 01:18 GMT (UK)
I'm trying  to find any information about my grandmother or her relatives her name maiden name was christina  mary  Costelloe  and she was from a family  of fish mongers from killrush  she died  having  my uncle  when she was only 28 on xmas  day 1949/1950 and my dad and hes brothers  were put int artane  industrial  school  please  can anyone  help  me I would  really   appreciated  itB
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Erato on Monday 09 December 19 01:32 GMT (UK)
You've come to the right place to get some help but I'm not a person who can help with Irish records so I'll just say welcome to RootsChat.  Stick around and others will get on the case.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 09 December 19 02:37 GMT (UK)
Search for their marriage here

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

It will give you name of her father which will help you identify her in the birth indexes.

If you would also give your grandfathers name here  ( if he is not still alive) then we could help with the looking. 
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 09 December 19 02:58 GMT (UK)
I may be wrong but given her age when she died, I don't think the marriage will be online?

I recently had to fill in an application form online for a 1939 marriage, not online...

I wouldn't have known where/when they married apart from an approx. yr had it not been for their marriage date/place being on the BC of their 2nd child born in Scotland.

Annie

Add, Welcome to Rootschat!
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Jamjar on Monday 09 December 19 04:01 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat.

She died where?

What was her married name?

Jamjar
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 09 December 19 04:36 GMT (UK)
I saw a couple of 1941/1942/1943 marriages so was hopeful as the OP mentions brothers, plural, that she might scrape in to that period
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: solidrock on Monday 09 December 19 07:12 GMT (UK)
Maybe...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYK1-NP2?from=lynx1UIV7

If you Dad and his brothers we put into Artane Industrial School I assume Christina died in or near Dublin.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: solidrock on Monday 09 December 19 07:29 GMT (UK)
Cert.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 09 December 19 13:11 GMT (UK)
Well done solidrock!

It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?

Annie
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: heywood on Monday 09 December 19 13:25 GMT (UK)
Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite.  :)
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 13:32 GMT (UK)
Well done solidrock!

It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?

Annie
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922

I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 13:33 GMT (UK)
Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite.  :)

agree we need her married name to make any sure progress.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 14:48 GMT (UK)
Well done solidrock!

It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?

Annie
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922

I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.
Kathleen posted that the lady came from Kilrush and the family were fishmongers though, which makes that marriage questionable or at least not yet definite.  :)
Title: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 15:06 GMT (UK)
I'm try to find my dads family  he was put into artane  school  when hes mother  died  my dads name  was Danny  mcdonagh  known as Danny boy he was put in there when he was 9 or 10 in 1949/1950 he was there until he was 16 .please  if any body knew  him or any thing  about  him please  can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never  knew  anything  about  hes family  or hes mom so please  if anyone  can help  it would  be very appreciated 
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: GrahamSimons on Monday 09 December 19 15:22 GMT (UK)
One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive - so there's a limit to what we can do.
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/DublinArtaneIS/?LMCL=kmBhuf gives a link to Barnardo's tracing service, which might help. Thereare other useful links there.
This might also give you a way in to records: https://www.education.ie/en/The-Department/FOI/Applications-by-Former-Residents-of-Industrial-Schools/FAQs.html
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 15:35 GMT (UK)
I see you have given the surname McDonagh on another thread, I'm still not finding a death for Christina or a marriage, do you know when her eldest child was born and which county this Kilrush was in?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Gadget on Monday 09 December 19 15:57 GMT (UK)




One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive
Graham, the Op says he is dead:

Quote
please  can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never  knew  anything  about  hes family  or hes mom

Gadget
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: GrahamSimons on Monday 09 December 19 16:00 GMT (UK)
One of the terms and conditions of this website is that we don't deal with living people. Judging by your information here, your father may still be alive
Graham, the Op says he is dead:

Quote
please  can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never  knew  anything  about  hes family  or hes mom

Gadget
Missed that! But I hope what I've found will be a bit helpful.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 09 December 19 19:03 GMT (UK)
What is the profession of brides father on certificate posted in reply 7 by solid rock I cant read it .

Kathleen do you know your uncles names ?  Could they still be living
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 09 December 19 19:09 GMT (UK)
What is the profession of brides father on certificate posted in reply 7 by solid rock I cant read it .

Daniel Costello is a labourer.

KG

Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 19:51 GMT (UK)
Kathleen sent me more info by PM but I still can't find anything on the family, even a birth cert she has a copy of I can't find on the index on FamilySearch so I just don't know what's going on or what I'm doing wrong.
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 09 December 19 20:10 GMT (UK)
What was Christina's husband's name from the child's birth cert? Is the cert for your father, Kathleen?

Helps to put the info on the main thread for everyone to see otherwise people can't really help much more with the amount of info so far.

Monica 

PS: Welcome to RootsChat from me too  :)
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 20:19 GMT (UK)
You've come to the right place to get some help but I'm not a person who can help with Irish records so I'll just say welcome to RootsChat.  Stick around and others will get on the case.
thank you so much
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 09 December 19 20:40 GMT (UK)
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922

I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.

There are marriage and death records on IrishGenealogy for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1921. There are also birth records on IG for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1918.

KG

Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 09 December 19 20:42 GMT (UK)
Well done solidrock!

It may be a case not all are digitised yet but I note the one I had to request for 1939 was for N. Ireland i.e. not sure if that would make a difference?

Annie

GRONI have marriage records on-line for Northern Ireland up to today's date in December 1944.

KG

Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Monday 09 December 19 20:49 GMT (UK)
I'm try to find my dads family  he was put into artane  school  when hes mother  died  my dads name  was Danny  mcdonagh  known as Danny boy he was put in there when he was 9 or 10 in 1949/1950 he was there until he was 16 .please  if any body knew  him or any thing  about  him please  can you let me know as my dad is dead now and he never  knew  anything  about  hes family  or hes mom so please  if anyone  can help  it would  be very appreciated

How sure are you of the dates, because if he was 9 or 10 when his Mother died, then surely he would have remembered something about her, his Father, and possible aunts, uncles, grandparents?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 21:01 GMT (UK)
Nothing on Irish Genealogy for N. Ireland after 1922

I'll rephrase that because as such it doesn't make sense, there is nothing for Northern Ireland on Irish Genealogy.
Irish Genealogy has records for Ireland, Irish Free State and Republic of Ireland.

There are marriage and death records on IrishGenealogy for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1921. There are also birth records on IG for Northern Ireland up to the end of 1918.

KG


No there isn't, they are Ireland records, Northern Ireland didn't exist pre 1922
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 21:07 GMT (UK)
I tried to find some trace of a Costello fishmonger in Kilrush Co. Clare but I'm not having any luck.
Kathleen has been give a different surname for Christina's husband so either Danial McDonagh or McDonald.
I need a break.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Monday 09 December 19 21:26 GMT (UK)
I tried to find some trace of a Costello fishmonger in Kilrush Co. Clare but I'm not having any luck.
Kathleen has been give a different surname for Christina's husband so either Danial McDonagh or McDonald.
I need a break.
thank you  for all your  help  sinann you are really  kind
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 09 December 19 23:31 GMT (UK)
I wonder if Donaugh could be a second marriage or a named father .

If Joseph Cole was her first husband maybe the other sons have his surname .
If that is the right Mary Christine C
In reply 7 it means that she may have named Daniel after her own father .
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Monday 09 December 19 23:38 GMT (UK)
I don't think the Cole marriage is her, she was said to be 28 when she died in 1949/50 and One of her son's was born 1940 so it's unlikely she had an earlier marriage.
If the information is coming from children who lost their mother quite young then had to endure Artane errors are to be expected, which may be why it proving so difficult to find any supporting records.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 10 December 19 00:05 GMT (UK)
What is the spelling of your father's surname on your BC & your parents MC & who is named as his father?

Do you have your father's BC, what details are on it?

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 13:01 GMT (UK)
What is the spelling of your father's surname on your BC & your parents MC & who is named as his father?

Do you have your father's BC, what details are on it?it says  that hes mothers  name was christina  mary  Costelloe  and hes dads name  was dan mcdonagh

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 13:22 GMT (UK)
I don't think the Cole marriage is her, she was said to be 28 when she died in 1949/50 and One of her son's was born 1940 so it's unlikely she had an earlier marriage.
If the information is coming from children who lost their mother quite young then had to endure Artane errors are to be expected, which may be why it proving so difficult to find any supporting records.
that's so true he was so young  and so was hes brothers  they didn't  know  anything  about  each other  for years
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 December 19 14:11 GMT (UK)
I think you best bet is to contact the Christian Brothers to see what records survive about the boys from Artane
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=677364.0
See the address on reply #2
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 16:11 GMT (UK)
I wonder if Donaugh could be a second marriage or a named father .

If Joseph Cole was her first husband maybe the other sons have his surname .
If that is the right Mary Christine C
In reply 7 it means that she may have named Daniel after her own father .
well hes dad was called  dan mcdonagh  that's what it says on hes birt cert
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 10 December 19 16:24 GMT (UK)
Kathleen,

Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?

This all helps

Heywood
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 16:27 GMT (UK)
Kathleen,

Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?

This all helps
my dad  was born in salthill  in galway 
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 19:21 GMT (UK)
Kathleen sent me more info by PM but I still can't find anything on the family, even a birth cert she has a copy of I can't find on the index on FamilySearch so I just don't know what's going on or what I'm doing wrong.
I'm so grateful sinann for you and everyones help it is a big mistrey  some one some where had to know my granmothers family  just trying  everything  and I'm just getting  nothing  on her
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 December 19 19:58 GMT (UK)
Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?

On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 December 19 20:45 GMT (UK)
That looks a promising little thread end for Christina, Sinann  ;) Well done!

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 21:12 GMT (UK)
Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?

On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
thank you so so much  sinann this may well be her what is her mums name  I will nead this to order her birt cert
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 December 19 21:27 GMT (UK)
It doesn't give the mother's name.
Can you see the form on the link I gave
See Column 5. Year Quarter Volume Page Number
all that information (except Page number) is on FamlySearch link.
Also fill in Column 1,2 and 3
They should be able to send you a photocopy of the cert.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 December 19 21:28 GMT (UK)
If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W

You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 21:37 GMT (UK)
If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W

You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.

Monica
thank you so much monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 December 19 21:41 GMT (UK)
I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D

Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG

Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 22:08 GMT (UK)
I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D

Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG

Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better  :-\

Monica
thank you monica it may well be them but dad always  said  her name was Christina 
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 December 19 22:26 GMT (UK)
Sorry  ::) Sometimes get my Catherines and Christinas in a mess! Forget about that entry...

I had been trying to find a bride to match to this marriage www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG

Added: A/try do have a list of brides and grooms' names for this entry and nothing matching for Christina on this entry.

Monica



Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 22:34 GMT (UK)
Just to be sure it is a birth cert for your Dad you have, not a baptism cert?

On a slightly positive note there is a birth of a Christina Costello in 1921 Kilrush.
The cert isn't online yet so to see it you would need to order a €4 photocopy using the form on this link
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
or if you live in Ireland you could get it in your local registry office (be sure to ask for a photocopy)
The details are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
unfortunately it doesn't give the mother's maiden name on the index so can't check for a marriage for the parents to see if the father was involved with fish in any way.
It may be your Christina.
thank you  so much sinann  I think you  might  of found my granmother this means the world to me I really  cant thank  you enough 
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 22:39 GMT (UK)
Sorry  ::) Sometimes get my Catherines and Christinas in a mess! Forget about that entry...

I had been trying to find a bride to match to this marriage www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG

Added: A/try do have a list of brides and grooms' names for this entry and nothing matching for Christina on this entry.

Monica
thank you  monica  for your  help I really  appreciate it I just  cant understand  why there not there confusing  alot
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 December 19 22:57 GMT (UK)
Did your Dad know what happened to his father following his mum's death and everything that happened afterwards?

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 23:11 GMT (UK)
If your grandfather always went by the name of Dan, there is this possible birth for him here:
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB1B-P4W

You will need a marriage cert for Dan and Christina with father's details to be able to confirm parents' names.

Monica
thank you monica  this may well be him it's very possible  I think
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 10 December 19 23:56 GMT (UK)
Did your Dad know what happened to his father following his mum's death and everything that happened afterwards?

Monica
I know  very  little  only that my grandfather moved  to carlow dont know much about  him dad said  he never  forgave  him  for putting  him and hes brothers  into artane  school he said  the abuse  he suffered  was extremely  terrible in there .I would  love to find someone  who knew  him in there .
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 10 December 19 23:57 GMT (UK)
I did see this marriage for a Christina www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYKR-L6D

Can't see so far a corresponding match to a Daniel. Closest I can see is a possible entry for a Patrick McDonagh in that quarter and vol number www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY28-7NG

Wish there was also an entry number in the Volume to help link up entries better  :-\

Monica

I'm on iPad so I can't see the FamilySearch records but just to remind you marriage Certs up to 1943 are free to view on Irish Genealogy
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 11 December 19 07:32 GMT (UK)
I know  very  little  only that my grandfather moved  to carlow dont know much about  him dad said  he never  forgave  him  for putting  him and hes brothers  into artane  school he said  the abuse  he suffered  was extremely  terrible in there .I would  love to find someone  who knew  him in there .

Have you considered putting a letter in the local newspaper asking if anyone was in Artane at the same time as your Father?   Also see if there is a facebook group of the local area, and post there.
Does Artane School itself have a facebook group or website such as 'Children sent to Artane'?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Wednesday 11 December 19 11:27 GMT (UK)
I know  very  little  only that my grandfather moved  to carlow dont know much about  him dad said  he never  forgave  him  for putting  him and hes brothers  into artane  school he said  the abuse  he suffered  was extremely  terrible in there .I would  love to find someone  who knew  him in there .

Have you considered putting a letter in the local newspaper asking if anyone was in Artane at the same time as your Father?   Also see if there is a facebook group of the local area, and post there.
Does Artane School itself have a facebook group or website such as 'Children sent to Artane'?
that's a good  idea thank you 
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 11 December 19 12:17 GMT (UK)
Kathleen,

Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?

This all helps
my dad  was born in salthill  in galway

I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.

Kathleen,
I asked earlier for details re your dad’s birth certificate. Do you have the civil certificate?

The information should give the following:

His name - Dan McDonagh - is that what it says?
Date and place of birth - you have Salthill but when?
Name and dwelling place of his father - you have Dan McDonagh
Name and surname and maiden name of mother - it should therefore say Christina Mary McDonagh formerly Costelloe according to the information you have given us
Rank or profession of father - what was Dan snr’s occupation?
The informant of the birth

These details might help find the parents.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 11 December 19 12:28 GMT (UK)
I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.

Can't find the marriage, or the death or the son's birth in Salthill (Galway) in the index on FamilySearch (born 1940 btw) there are a few McDonagh/Costello births but no Daniel.
Which is way I wondered if it was a baptism cert.

I think it would also be a good idea to contact the Christian Brothers re Artane. They may have information on the parents.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 11 December 19 12:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Sinann,
I was thinking on similar lines. I wonder if the birth information is from Artane records - I agree re contact the Brothers if there are available records.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 11 December 19 13:54 GMT (UK)
Do we know the name of the brother/uncle, as it might be easier to find, or attack the problem from a different direction?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Wednesday 11 December 19 16:40 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, just got my uncle's  birth  cert  and its saying  hes dads name  is dan McDonnell it's all not making  much sense 

Does the certificate show parents names as Dan McDonagh and Christina Mary Costelloe?
What was Dan’s occupation?
Who was the informant of the birth?
Is there a birthplace?

This all helps
my dad  was born in salthill  in galway

I can’t yet see a death for Christina around 1950, has this been found?
The birth for Christina looks promising but would not really confirm that it is her unless other certificates were found.

Kathleen,
I asked earlier for details re your dad’s birth certificate. Do you have the civil certificate?

The information should give the following:

His name - Dan McDonagh - is that what it says?
Date and place of birth - you have Salthill but when?
Name and dwelling place of his father - you have Dan McDonagh
Name and surname and maiden name of mother - it should therefore say Christina Mary McDonagh formerly Costelloe according to the information you have given us
Rank or profession of father - what was Dan snr’s occupation?
The informant of the birth

These details might help find the parents.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Wednesday 11 December 19 16:44 GMT (UK)
Do we know the name of the brother/uncle, as it might be easier to find, or attack the problem from a different direction?
I have just  got hold of my uncle Joseph's birt cert and its saying  he was born july 1946 to a dan McDonnell  and a Christina  McDonnell' gormley Costello  I'm so confused
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Wednesday 11 December 19 16:48 GMT (UK)
You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?

Where was the birth, please?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 11 December 19 17:04 GMT (UK)
There is a birth in Tralee with those details.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 11 December 19 19:07 GMT (UK)
Here’s a death that almost fits the facts, except for the name!
And the cause of death!
And the date.  Not Xmas day.

It’s the only Mary McDon* who was age 28
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 11 December 19 19:29 GMT (UK)
Who was informant on your father & brother's birth certs?

Was the informant the same for both & do the signatures match?

Does both certs. state 'formerly' for mother which would indicate they were married?

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Wednesday 11 December 19 19:37 GMT (UK)
You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?

Where was the birth, please?
that was my youngest  uncle she died having  there was three brothers how do I up load my uncles birth cert on here please
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Wednesday 11 December 19 19:44 GMT (UK)
Here’s a death that almost fits the facts, except for the name!
And the cause of death!
And the date.  Not Xmas day.

It’s the only Mary McDon* who was age 28
it is very similar  to her just cant understand  why theres nothing  about her any where it's very weird
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 11 December 19 20:03 GMT (UK)
You thought Christina died at Christmas 1949/1950 after birth of her son, your uncle, but he was actually born in 1946, and the spelling is McDonnell not McDonagh?

If illiterate the name would be written according to what was thought/heard?

Many people who were illiterate could actually sign their name although often it was done for them.

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 11 December 19 22:32 GMT (UK)
Just helping Kathleen to add a clip from her Uncle Joseph's 1946 birth cert. Left off all the headings, but column 7 is for occupation. Linker? Can't make it out. Added, Tinker and no fixed abode would fit for Dan McD Snr.?

Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 11 December 19 22:42 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:

C T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South

Volume: 2
Page: 688

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 11 December 19 23:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks Monica...

"No fixed abode", described as 'Tinker' & no occupation recorded i.e. times would be hard, even worse when Christina passed away & probably felt the children would be better looked after at Artane?

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 11 December 19 23:13 GMT (UK)
An insight of the times (1946) a very sad story...

https://www.joe.ie/life-style/rte-documentary-unmarried-mother-637242

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 12 December 19 00:30 GMT (UK)
I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: brigidmac on Thursday 12 December 19 00:50 GMT (UK)
I agree sinaan
I'm following this story with interest and admiring all your detective work .
Now we know the uncles names maybe someone will be able to find if they had children .
Do we know if Dan senior stayed in Ireland ? It's getting to be hard to follow a summary of known facts might help .I'm not volunteering because my typing is too bad .
But will have a look on ancestry trees for Joseph and Christopher
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 12 December 19 01:03 GMT (UK)
Brigid yes, the detective work as usual has been great, it seems the spelling of the surname was/is the stumbling block.

With the different spellings uncovered the death posted by Mckha looks quite likely?

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Maiden Stone on Thursday 12 December 19 01:25 GMT (UK)
Are the people whose birth info was posted in replies #69 and 70 alive? Just thinking of RootsChat's no living person policy.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Thursday 12 December 19 08:26 GMT (UK)
That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina.  Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?

Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?

Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?

Have you tried this site?

https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 12 December 19 08:53 GMT (UK)
A sum up is a good idea.
This is as I've picked the story up, open to correction.

Christina Mary Costello, believed born 1921/22 the daughter of a fishmonger from Kilrush Co. Clare married Daniel McDonagh/McDonald a Tinker before 1940
First son Dan (deceased) born 1940 in Salthill Galway
Second son born 1946 Tralee
Third son born 1949/50 at Christmas, Christina died, believed to have occurred somewhere in Kerry.
Sons sent to Artane
Daniel last know in Carlow.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Thursday 12 December 19 09:12 GMT (UK)
Sinann:
Is she definitely Christina Mary, (also spelling McDonnell for Dan)?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Gibel on Thursday 12 December 19 09:28 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but I found this on the www.childrenshomes.org.uk site on the Artane Industrial School page

Barnardo's Origins Tracing Service — for people (and their families) who spent all or part of their childhood in an Irish Industrial School and are interested in tracing information about their parents, siblings or other relatives.
Irish Petty Sessions Court Registers 1828-1912 (available online to subscribers of findmypast.co.uk) include details of committals to Irish Reformatories and Industrial Schools.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 12 December 19 11:29 GMT (UK)
Sinann:
Is she definitely Christina Mary, (also spelling McDonnell for Dan)?

I don't know, that appears to be how her children knew her, she is just Christina on that cert but perhaps she preferred Christina so swapped the order of her names.
If she was Mary Christina than her death may be in the index as Mary, I had looked for a Mary McDonagh, can't remember now if I tried the McDonald or McDonnell names.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: chempat on Thursday 12 December 19 11:37 GMT (UK)
Yes, I just wanted a sum up with definite facts, and the possible extra bits as such.  If one of the birth certificates had both names then I would be happier, but we do not know that?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 12:43 GMT (UK)
I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand  what your saying  but why wouldn't  he look for them it's just so unfair
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 12:46 GMT (UK)
That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina.  Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?

Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?

Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?

Have you tried this site?

https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
it just  says Christina  and dads name  on hes birth  cert is Daniel  mcdonagh
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 12 December 19 13:03 GMT (UK)
I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand  what your saying  but why wouldn't  he look for them it's just so unfair

I'm always wary of judging the parents in these suitations, he may well have just abandoned his children to the state and gone on his merry way, or he may have missed them every day but didn't have the means or know how to get them back, or he have believed they were better off without him. The state/church rode rough shod over parents back than once they had control a lone father wouldn't have much chance against them.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 13:12 GMT (UK)
That 1946 birth says Mother was Christina.  Does your Father's birth say Christina, or is the name Mary Christina?

Has anyone found any Costelloe fishmongers in Kilrush?

Added:
Was it definitely the Costelloes who were fishmongers?

Have you tried this site?

https://www.facebook.com/KDHSCountyClare/
it just  says Christina  and dads name  on hes birth  cert is Daniel  mcdonagh
and thank you  for the link I just  text them so hopefully  they wil text back
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Rosinish on Thursday 12 December 19 14:05 GMT (UK)
Can you tell us exactly what is written on your dad's BC, everything how it's written please?

Annie
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 21:07 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:

Christopher T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South

Volume: 2
Page: 688


I sorry for the late reply  monica  I'm still  trying  to figure  out how to reply  on this but thank you so so much  that must be my granmother  and uncle dad most of getting  the xmas day date wrong
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 21:24 GMT (UK)
I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
I understand  what your saying  but why wouldn't  he look for them it's just so unfair

I'm always wary of judging the parents in these suitations, he may well have just abandoned his children to the state and gone on his merry way, or he may have missed them every day but didn't have the means or know how to get them back, or he have believed they were better off without him. The state/church rode rough shod over parents back than once they had control a lone father wouldn't have much chance against them.
I suppose  It must  of been so hard for them all
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 21:31 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, from what you have mentioned to me when sending cert over, Joseph was actually not last born son. Last born son was:

Christopher T McDonald
Mother's Surname: Costello
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1950
Registration district: Dublin South

Volume: 2
Page: 688


I sorry for the late reply  monica  I'm still  trying  to figure  out how to reply  on this but thank you so so much  that must be my granmother  and uncle dad most of getting  the xmas day date wrong
can you tell me were you found it on
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 12 December 19 21:47 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, that index entry came from Ancestry's Irish statutory BMD index databases.

Monica

PS: Maybe worth you getting a copy of this to see what it says? Then you will have official records for all 3 brothers. No sisters?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Thursday 12 December 19 23:14 GMT (UK)
Kathleen, that index entry came from Ancestry's Irish statutory BMD index databases.

Monica

PS: Maybe worth you getting a copy of this to see what it says? Then you will have official records for all 3 brothers. No sisters?
thank you monica  so much for your  help with this matter  I will try I think that was my uncle  Christopher and now I am so confused  I have just herd that he was born on the 16 of july 1950 so that would  mean  my granmother  didn't  die on xmas day like my dad always  thought
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 12 December 19 23:37 GMT (UK)
Kathleen you can search for these records on FamilySearch
This is Christopher
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1DT-ZWP

This is the search page https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1408347

Did you know the last child was called Christopher? I though you said he was Joseph.
You won't know for sure if this Christopher is yours until you get the certificate.
If the child born at the time of Christina's death died before it was born (stillborn) it's won't be registered at all and as Christina doesn't appear to have a death cert than it doesn't look like she was in a hospital.
If the child survived and does have a birth cert that you would expect Christina to have a death cert as well as they would likely have been registered at the same time.
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 13 December 19 05:11 GMT (UK)
Children may remember what they are told.i imagine a scenario where they didn't see their sick mother after the last baby and were told around Christmas that she.d died .or they were taken away one Christmas before she died either way it must have been very traumatic for them all.
Kathleen don't worry if the paper trail doesn't always fit the stories you were told ..mistakes are made when facts are passed on orally or transcribed from documents to computers . It may take a while to unravel but I'm sure you'll get some more answers eventually .
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Friday 13 December 19 11:29 GMT (UK)
Children may remember what they are told.i imagine a scenario where they didn't see their sick mother after the last baby and were told around Christmas that she.d died .or they were taken away one Christmas before she died either way it must have been very traumatic for them all.
Kathleen don't worry if the paper trail doesn't always fit the stories you were told ..mistakes are made when facts are passed on orally or transcribed from documents to computers . It may take a while to unravel but I'm sure you'll get some more answers eventually .
yes it must of been very hard on her sons not knowing  were there mother  was and  why they were put into  artane  school it is a very  sad story  that hopefully  I can unravel  soon
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Friday 13 December 19 14:29 GMT (UK)
A stage at a time always with this type of research.

I think that 1950 birth would be where I would look to next to confirm it is connected and if so, what other details it may contain that may help.

Monica
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Friday 13 December 19 15:24 GMT (UK)
I agree with Monica - check that 1950 birth.

I thought the death of Mary McDonald posted earlier might have been Christina but there is no husband mentioned on the death certificate so no way to check.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1950/04517/4189104.pdf

Added
I just checked Glasnevin burial records and there is a burial for that lady in the indexes but there is a charge for further details.
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Friday 13 December 19 22:50 GMT (UK)
A stage at a time always with this type of research.

I think that 1950 birth would be where I would look to next to confirm it is connected and if so, what other details it may contain that may help.

Monica
I have  just  found  out that my grandmothers date of birth  was 1/1/1921 and her parents  names  were john Costello and a Elizabeth Cunningham and my granmother  was born  in kilkee  not killrush  and I also found out that my uncle  Christopher's full name was Christopher Thomas McDonald  born 16 july 1950 alots not adding up of what dad said
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: heywood on Friday 13 December 19 23:18 GMT (UK)
This is the 1918 marriage of John Costello, soldier, 48 yrs widower and Elizabeth Foran, 31 yrs, widow. Her father was Frederick Cunningham, deceased.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09731/5530871.pdf
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Saturday 14 December 19 00:20 GMT (UK)
This is the 1918 marriage of John Costello, soldier, 48 yrs widower and Elizabeth Foran, 31 yrs, widow. Her father was Frederick Cunningham, deceased.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09731/5530871.pdf
I wonder were  they from kilkee and how my kids did they have
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: josey on Saturday 14 December 19 14:38 GMT (UK)
It's free for anyone to look at that entry, Kathleen, you just have to register first then you can follow heywood's link. The church was in Kilrush & the witnesses were Frank Keane & Nellie Nevin.

Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 14 December 19 16:46 GMT (UK)
With Haywood's details from the likely 1918 marriage for Christina's parents, this birth entry https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01525/1618890.pdf  could be from Elizabeth Cunningham's first marriage. Father here showing as a John Forham. Birth of daughter in Kilrush.

Monica

Added: I think this Christina may have died in 1913. A Christina Forhan, aged 1 died in Kilrush in the first quarter of 1913. Can't see an image to be more certain.

Added 2: Should have looked better! Death for toddler Christina here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1913/05332/4484431.pdf From the description, only mother likely mentioned (charwoman's child). John Forhan deceased by now?
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 14 December 19 16:48 GMT (UK)
I have  just  found  out that my grandmothers date of birth  was 1/1/1921 and her parents  names  were john Costello and a Elizabeth Cunningham and my granmother  was born  in kilkee  not killrush  and I also found out that my uncle  Christopher's full name was Christopher Thomas McDonald  born 16 july 1950 alots not adding up of what dad said

Where did this information come from.


After 1918 is too late for births on Irish Genealogy.
The Kilrush index on Family Search doesn't give mother maiden name but there is a Christina Costello in Jan - March 1921 which fits with the date you were given.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MC-B2K
Title: Re: Trying trace my relatives
Post by: Kathleen73 on Tuesday 03 March 20 00:22 GMT (UK)
Cert.
That is so so weird I dont know  wat to think with that
Title: Re: People who might of known my dad from artane school
Post by: Kathleen73 on Saturday 23 May 20 23:01 BST (UK)
I doubt Dan was given a choice regards the children, they were probably just taken from him.
hi sinann I found out that my grandfather settled in bagenalstown in carlow after my mother  died and married a bridget Murphy on the 13 of January 1954