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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: AddictedtoFamilyTree on Thursday 06 August 20 14:33 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I'm not new, but wasn't sure where to put this post and thought here might be the best place. I've been going back through the records I have for my Great Grandma and her parents with a criticial eye to check everything I've got so far is correct, as far as I can be certain at least. One thing has jumped out at me today, which I've never noticed before...
Mary Jane Bailey marries George Henry Roberts in the parish of St Stephens, Hulme on 25th May 1884. They both sign their names, hers isn't great... Mary is ok, then it goes a bit wobbly. She's 17 and has no profession. Her father is listed as William Bailey, doesn't say he is deceased although I believe he was, not sure if this was a consent issue if she was 17? I haven't identified either of the witnesses to the marriage either.
On 8th June 1884 Mary Jane Roberts gives birth to Georgina Roberts and registers the birth on 29th July 1884. In the box on Georgina's birth certificate that says signature, description and residence of informant there is an X which says mark of Mary Jane Roberts.
Now I've had a quick look at a couple of other birth certifcates I've scanned in on to my tree and I can't see a noticeable difference in the hand writing on this section - they aren't original copies but I do remember signing my daughter's. If she's not very literate could it just be that she can't spell her newly married surname? Or could it be something else? I'll add attachments in a mo...
Thank you
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Marriage certificate...
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Georgina's birth certificate...
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It's possible she had not had a chance to practice her new signature. Another possibility is the Registrar simply asked her to make her mark and she complied, I believe this often happened.
I have found perfectly literate people making their mark, one woman signed on her first marriage and made an X on her second marriage.
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A the marriage it is not unusual for no occupation of the bride to be entered - infact it is unusual to find an occupation listed
Sometimes a bride would sign if she could but would just make her mark if her husband was unable to sign
Most probably she did not sign her daughters birth certificate for the reasons Jebber gave
Have you noticed on the same page as Georgina's baptism there is this
Alfred Bailey born 24 Aug 1884 baptised 10 Sept 1884 Parents William Bailey & Mary Ann address 74 Bradshaw St father's occ hosepipe weaver
as they lived on the same road as George Henry and Mary Jane did when they married I wondered if they were related to Mary Jane
It seems Alfred's mother was b Ireland -so I wondered if there might be a connection between her and witness James Delahumty as this seems to be mainly an Irish name
Just guessing of course !!
Suz
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I wondered about the signature when I looked at it last night. George and Mary's signatures on the marriage cert look as if they are in the same hand :-\
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Hi
One of my ggg grandmothers signed at her marriage (pre-registration times, beautiful signature). By the time of her sixth child in August 1837 she made her mark on her one and only daughter's birth certificate.
The certificate was dated the day after birth - I had always put it down to exhaustion !!! ;D ;D
Gaie
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Would they have needed to be actually living at Bradshaw Street? Although that address does pop up a few times with different people... Can't recall which ones off the top of my head. Its these Baileys with an Irish connection popping up that have made me go through the ones I've got, who have a welsh connection, and double check everything.
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Hi
One of my ggg grandmothers signed at her marriage (pre-registration times, beautiful signature). By the time of her sixth child in August 1837 she made her mark on her one and only daughter's birth certificate.
The certificate was dated the day after birth - I had always put it down to exhaustion !!! ;D ;D
Gaie
Could have been, bless her. Thank you.
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I wondered about the signature when I looked at it last night. George and Mary's signatures on the marriage cert look as if they are in the same hand :-\
Both very wobbly. Although I often think how similar people's handwriting is on some certificates.
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Have you noticed on the same page as Georgina's baptism there is this
Alfred Bailey born 24 Aug 1884 baptised 10 Sept 1884 Parents William Bailey & Mary Ann address 74 Bradshaw St father's occ hosepipe weaver
as they lived on the same road as George Henry and Mary Jane did when they married I wondered if they were related to Mary Jane
It seems Alfred's mother was b Ireland -so I wondered if there might be a connection between her and witness James Delahumty as this seems to be mainly an Irish name
Just guessing of course !!
Suz
I've double checked my Mary Jane's siblings, she had two brothers called William, one died as an infant, hence the second William, and he didn't make it to the 1880s. She had a sister called Sarah but she died as an infant too. Maybe Mary Jane and William are cousins? Georgina's first husband was lodging with her mum's sister Amy in the 1901 census. They all seemed quite close. Georgina's son also married one of Amy's children.
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George Henry had a sister called Sarah, but having double checked, she is too young to be a witness or married to become Sarah Pearson. Georgina's husband, Isaac Frost, had a Grandma called Bailey too! ??? They're making my head hurt so I think I might leave it for today... or at least until after tea...
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George Henry had a sister called Sarah, but having double checked, she is too young to be a witness or married to become Sarah Pearson.
How old was Sarah Pearson, George's sister? Was there a minimum age for a marriage witness?
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Witnesses could be very young, there was no minimum age, they only had to be old enough to understand what they were witnessing.
A girl could marry at 12 and a boy at 14.
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Sarah Roberts would have been 10 when her brother got married. So I don’t think she is old enough to be married herself and now Sarah Pearson to be one of the witnesses?
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George Henry had a sister called Sarah, but having double checked, she is too young to be a witness or married to become Sarah Pearson.
How old was Sarah Pearson, George's sister? Was there a minimum age for a marriage witness?
I was trying to work out of the witness Sarah Pearson could be his sister Sarah, but I don’t think it can be her.