RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: jdaines89 on Tuesday 27 July 21 17:14 BST (UK)
-
Hi, thanks to everyone who helped with my previous lookups, it's been a great help and I appreciate your time and effort to assist me. I have yet another request i would like to make, only because I am truly stuck and want your opinions/help
I am looking for a baptism for James Warren born circa 1804 in Rickinghall (according to census data).
Information I have:
1825: married Mary Ann Martin in Finningham, Suffolk.
1841: Stowupland: Farmer born Suffolk. Born 1806
1851: Kersey, Cosford: Farmer born Rickinghall. Born 1804
1861: Hockley, Essex: Farmer born Rickinghall. (Recorded as John, but definitely him) Born 1804
1871: Married Eliza Suckling in Hockley, Essex Born 1804
1871: Hockley, Essex: Farmer born Rickinghall. Born 1804
1878: died 1878 Southend, Essex. Born 1804
Possible children as per census (1841 census does not list relationship to head of household):
-Ruth Warren born 1826 baptized in Non-conformist church in Wattisfield
-Anthony Warren born 1828
-Catherine Warren born 1829
-Susan Warren born 1831 Willisham
-Walter Warren born 1833 Willisham
-James Warren born 1835 Whatfield
-Anastasia Warren (Anna) born 1837 Rickinghall
-Mary Ann Warren born 1840 Stowupland
Note: I ordered Anastasia's Birth certificate from GRO a while back and it listed her place of birth as Walsham le Willows, however on the census, it lists Rickinghall as her place of birth.
From the census in 1851, I believe it says father next to Issachar Warren's name. The Issachar referred to, was born 1778 in Great Ashfield to James and Mary Warren. He is listed as widowed and was a yeoman. I believe he married an Ann Daines in Cotton, Suffolk in 1803. This could mean that James b1804 was their first child. I found Issachar in the 1841 census listed with Ann b1786 and a John Warren b1816. I was able to find a baptism for this John in Rickinghall to these parents in 1816. I also found a Mary Ann b1807 and a John b1809 d1811 in Rickinghall Inferior, who were children of Issachar and Ann Daines
Issachar died in 1863 in Rickinghall Inferior (born 1778 so it is him), but I can't find him in the 1861 census, which is frustrating...
I have ordered James Warrens will from 1878, so hopefully that might help if it lists siblings or nieces/nephews, but it will be still be a few weeks.
So please, if anyone has any ideas, I'll be most grateful to hear them. I do believe Issachar is James' s father but I just can't find a baptism to prove it and I have the transcripts for Rick Inf from 1800-1810 but didn't find anything for him. This makes me think that they were living somewhere else for the possible period 1803-1807, but he is very consistent in the censuses in saying he was born in Rickinghall, so I am stumped.
-
1871 marriage cert will show his fathers name & occupation. Are you sure you have the right marriage? This entry shows father as James & also shows James the groom as single?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:78BF-KZW2
-
Hi, this is all it shows on FindMyPast:
First name(s) James
Last name Warren
Event type Banns
Banns year 1871
Spouse's first name(s) Eliza
Spouse's last name Suckling
County Essex
Country England
Place Hockley
Residence Hockley
Spouse's marital status S
Spouse's residence Hockley
Archive Essex Record Office
Archive reference D/P 191/1/4
Record set Essex Marriages And Banns 1537-1935
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain
Note that there is another James Warren (seemingly unrelated) that marries an Eliza Suckling in 1871 in Hockley, where her father's name is given as Charles Suckling and his as James. However I found the census records for these two and they are much younger and he is from Wickham St Pauls.
-
James' wife Mary Ann died in 1863 in Hockley, Essex. After which, he appears in the same household, Plumbro Mount, with Eliza who is about 50. And he is born 1804 in Rickinghall, so I am sure this is the right one.
-
Your opening post says he married Eliza Suckling in 1871 yet your reply says it’s a different James?
I doubt that 2 males both called James Warren married 2 females both called Eliza Suckling in 1871 in Hockley
Your James would have been 67 at the time.
-
Your opening post says he married Eliza Suckling in 1871 yet your reply says it’s a different James?
I doubt that 2 males both called James Warren married 2 females both called Eliza Suckling in 1871 in Hockley
Your James would have been 67 at the time.
Hmm okay, I said it because there were two entries on FindMyPast, but with different info, however only one gives the full date so I can't see if they are different or just entered twice. This is the census for 1871:
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Warren Head - Male 67 1804 - Suffolk, England
Eliza Warren Wife - Female 50 1821 - Somerset, England
Sarah Marven - - Female 21 1850 - Essex, England
Looking for any other marriages for a James Warren and an Eliza now.
-
The marriage would need to be between 1863 and 1871
-
1864 marriage to Eliza Moss in Essex but as she was b Somerset also one in 1865 Somerset to Eliza Edwards
EDIT - FORGET THE ONE TO ELIZA MOSS - HE WAS SINGLE
1865 - 1871 shows Eliza b Yeovil??
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPCL-F5ZM
James will may provide some info when it arrives
-
Okay, I'll wait for the will to possibly help with marriage. Any thoughts on the baptism?
-
1865 - 1871 shows Eliza b Yeovil??
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPCL-F5ZM
Essex Standard, 22 Sep 1865
Marriages
Sept. 14th, at Wellington, Somerset, by the Rev. E. Edwards, of Chard, Mr. James Warren, of Hockley, in this county, to Eliza, eldest daughter of B. Edwards, Esq., of Wellington.
And again in the same paper on the 27th.
-
Great find! So it is surely him 🙏
-
Oh yes, it's him a bit more to come (sad stuff)
-
Death announcements
Chelmsford Chronicle, 14 Aug 1863
WARREN—10th inst. at Plumbro Mount, Hockley, Mary Ann, the beloved wife of Mr. James Warren, deeply lamented by her family and friends, aged 62.
Essex Standard, 21 Aug 1863
Aug. 10th. at Plumbro Mount, Hockley, Mary Ann, wife of Mr. James Warren, aged 62.
We can see the BT of her burial at Hockley, 15 Aug
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLX-R7B
and
Chelmsford Chronicle, 13 Nov 1863
WARREN—2nd inst. at Rickenhall, Suffolk, aged 85. Mr. J. Warren, father of Mr. James Warren, Plumbro Mount, Hockley.
Essex Standard, 13 Nov 1863
Nov. 2nd, at Rickenhall, Suffolk, aged 85, Mr. J. Warren, father of the Mr. James Warren, Plumbro Mount, Hockley.
(it does say the Mr. James Warren)
-
So his father was James
There are 2 baptisms on FS - neither in Rickinghall but this one may possibly be of interest given James called one of his daughters Susan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1G2-FJ5
-
Oh wow, very interesting. How useful newspapers can be! Any idea then why there is an Issachar Warren listed as his father in the 1851 census? Would that possibly make him his uncle? Since there was a James Warren born in 1779 in Gt Ashfield too?
-
I cannot find a James Warren that died in 1863 in Rickinghall? There is only an Issachar who died 1863 in Rickinghall...and he is buried on the 2nd of Nov 1863 in Rickinghall, which is the same date as the article and he is said to be 85..
-
Transcribed as Isaac Lee Warren on Ancestry but if you look at the original entry it's anybody's guess
Issachar is on the 1861 - father in law to William Gooderham
-
Perhaps it's just an error in the newspaper?
Age is 85.
Death is on the 2 Nov 1863.
There may be other announcements, there will certainly be more sources!
P.S. I have seen the originals
-
Transcribed as Isaac Lee Warren on Ancestry but if you look at the original entry it's anybody's guess
Issachar is on the 1861 - father in law to William Gooderham
Yes! That is Mary Ann, Issachar's daughter b1807. Checked the original now and it definitely says Issachar Warren born in Ashfield 1777. Great work
-
He is on the 1841 as Issachar aged 60 with wife Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73W-Q7Y
-
Perhaps it's just an error in the newspaper?
Age is 85.
Death is on the 2 Nov 1863.
There may be other announcements, there will certainly be more sources!
P.S. I have seen the originals
Yeah it definitely seems to be Issachar, as the dates and places match up perfectly. Hopefully there is another source that is different to the rest.
-
It's an unusual name (to me anyway!)
Bury & Norwich Post, 3 Nov 1863
Died.
On the 28th ult., at Rickinghall, in the 86th year of his age, Mr. Issachar Warren, many years of the Church Farm, in that parish.
Sorry if the Essex papers got it all wrong (wouldn't James have put the notice in?)
-
The 1865 marriage cert for James to Eliza will confirm his name
-
It's an unusual name (to me anyway!)
Bury & Norwich Post, 3 Nov 1863
Died.
On the 28th ult., at Rickinghall, in the 86th year of his age, Mr. Issachar Warren, many years of the Church Farm, in that parish.
Sorry if the Essex papers got it all wrong (wouldn't James have put the notice in?)
Yes, its a very unusual name to me too, this was the first time I heard it, but it's a biblical name. I see this one says he died on the 28th of October and the other is dated 2 Nov-which must be his burial date. Thank you for this.
-
Transcribed as Isaac Lee Warren on Ancestry but if you look at the original entry it's anybody's guess
Issachar is on the 1861 - father in law to William Gooderham
Just an update, the will of James Warren arrived. He lists his brother in law William Gooderham-married to Mary Ann Warren, as the executor of the estate. This confirms that Mary Ann is his sister which in turn confirms that Issachar Warren and Anne Daines are his parents!
Thank you so much to both of you for your help!
Now I just need to find out anything about this Anne Daines. She was listed in the 1841 census as being born in 1786 in Suffolk. She married Issachar in 1803 in Cotton, Suffolk. And she died before 1851 as Issachar is listed as a widow in that census.
-
Ancestry has Anne marrying Thachar Warren in 1803 but in Sudbury but no visible evidence. Just select marriages
Anne Warren d 1849 Sep Q Ipswich Suffolk
d 1851 mar Ipswich
d 1847 Jun Q Sudbury.
-
Ancestry has Anne marrying Thachar Warren in 1803 but in Sudbury but no visible evidence. Just select marriages
Anne Warren d 1849 Sep Q Ipswich Suffolk
d 1851 mar Ipswich
d 1847 Jun Q Sudbury.
Ann Daines married Issachar in 1803 in Cotton, Suffolk according to FindMyPast. I also found in the newspapers a death notice for an Anastasia Warren that died February 1842 aged 62, wife to Issachar Warren of Rickinghall. So that would place her year of birth as 1780. So it appears her full name was Anastasia