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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Zefiro on Sunday 15 August 21 18:15 BST (UK)
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Hello,
does anyone of you have a clue what's written here? This inscription was found in a French book of hours. Although this book dates from around 1500, it is unsure when these words were written. This book was passed from one generation to another, so the inscriptions can be of later date. As to language, I'm not sure if it even is French. Maybe it's Occitan or another regional dialect. I also have the impression that some extra strokes were added to a few letters.
Thanks in advance.
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Not an easy one, as I feared. As I mentioned before, there seem to be a few extra strokes added to some letters (the light-colored ink). I don't know if those with special software for editing photos can apply some sort of filter in order to see only the original letters, but not the unwanted curls?
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I had a play about on Google translate trying to work out what the words might mean.
I think that the second line says 'Jouet du Ales'.
Google translate says that 'Jouet du' means 'toy of'. So perhaps Ales is a person or family? Maybe it doesn't literally mean 'toy of' in this context, but sort of 'property of?'
The second word of that first line is really confusing. I can't make it out. I can't decide if the large straight line down is meant to be an s, or if it's meant to mark out a line between two words.
A Revesaeneitt des Begahet, if it's one word
Perhaps Reve aeneitt if it's two words.
What on earth that might mean I have no idea.
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I think the first sentence might be
To blank give blank.
I'm not having any luck beyond that.
Edit, or "To blank from blank"
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Regarding the middle word of the bottom line, it appears to begin with s. See Des (or is it Les?) in the first phrase.
In an English document of the period the upwards curving line would indicate a contraction, most likely of the letters er (but could be any vowel followed by r).
If it still doesn't make sense in French, try adding v after the er/ar/or/ur/ir.
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For what it's worth (not much), the last word could be Mer, giving Jouet ... Mer. Could it be a place-name?
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It's not modern French or modern Spanish (Castilian). It could, as suggested, be one of the older languages - Oc, or Aragonese, and I'm sure there were others that escape me for now. Catalan is an obvious example- I don't know how much that has changed over time.
In the city where I live, there used to be someone at the uni who specialised in archaic languages from what is now France and Spain. If the OP wants to drop me a PM, I'll give you his name. I've no idea where he's based now.
I do suspect that this might be esoteric enough to need specialist help!
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It is unlikely that any amount of guessing will produce a solution to this puzzle, there are too many problems with the sample.
First of all, I think the second fragment is in a different hand from the first. And we presumably don't have further samples of the same handwriting.
As discussed, the first fragment of writing seems to have extra curls added to the letters. It is not always apparent which are the added strokes.
In the bottom line, there are no alterations, the line seems to be written in normally. The word "jouet" looks quite clear but what follows isn't obvious at all.
Are there any surnames or places associated with /written in the book that might give a clue?
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Thanks to all for investing some time. I admit there is not a lot to compare. Sometimes inscriptions in books remain unexplained, despite combined grey cells efforts. When, in a few centuries, future researchers discover some of my writings, they will face the same problems, I fear. ;D
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So aren't there any names associated with this book? I was wondering if something like Caunet makes any sense, either as a place or a family name.
And I assume the majority of the book is much more readable?
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My suggestion is that you ask posters on the other part of this board to work their magic in at least removing the bleed through from the other side of this page. Done carefully this may help.
Also to remember the purpose of a Book of Hours ((from Wiki)
'Eventually a selection of texts was produced in much shorter volumes and came to be called a book of hours.[6] During the latter part of the thirteenth century the Book of Hours became popular as a personal prayer book for men and women who led secular lives. It consisted of a selection of prayers, psalms, hymns and lessons based on the liturgy of the clergy. Each book was unique in its content though all included the Hours of the Virgin Mary, devotions to be made during the eight canonical hours of the day, the reasoning behind the name 'Book of Hours'.
So there may be exhortations from special others, aides memoire and short prayers
The word A at the start of a sentence in French has a place in exhortation. So it might be structured as a homily
'to do x then do y'
XXXFaisXXX may be part of the French verb faire, to make or do. Then take into account that this is old French
https://conjugator.reverso.net/conjugation-french-verb-faire.html
A XXXXfaisad des xxxxx
Jouet can be a toy or is part of the Fr verb to play
Mer is the sea.
I suspect that a naughty child has got Maman's Book of Hours and has added tails to some of the letters.
So perhaps beaufait or beaufit? Otherwise where does the 'dot' belong?
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Thanks again for your input. I don't own this book. I'm only helping the owner to read the inscriptions. I have posted the back side of this page. There is also a text there.
Ihs maria mater dey
Anne de la
Mercerye(*) 1632
(*) I know here it is not exactly Mercerye, but this name also appeared on another page, and there it is spelled like that.
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I associate IHS as being symbolic of Jesus. It's supposedly from the Greek.
If we accept that IHS means Jesus, then in Latin that sort of means.
'Jesus, Mary the Mother of'
That's a bit tortured though.
I wonder if it was intended as a sort of blessing or something?
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Thanks again for your input. I don't own this book. I'm only helping the owner to read the inscriptions. I have posted the back side of this page. There is also a text there.
Ihs maria mater dey
Anne de la
Mercerye(*) 1632
(*) I know here it is not exactly Mercerye, but this name also appeared on another page, and there it is spelled like that.
I don't think there is a 'y' in this last word. The 6 in the date below has (1632) an extravagant head to it.
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'mater dey' = mother of God?
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On this page we see A(nne)? practising her writing.
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fouet de mer ? = seawhip which is a type of coral