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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: daljul on Thursday 16 March 23 16:40 GMT (UK)
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I have found the marriage of the above 30th November 1872
I think the father is Laurence. How do I find a birth of Thomas when no age is given on the certificate?
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks dinkey
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Full Age on the marriage record means that Thomas was 21 and over i.e born c1851 and before.
Living in the townland of Rampark.
https://www.townlands.ie/louth/lower-dundalk/ballymascanlan/jenkinstown/rampark/
Alice living in the townland of Jenkinstown.
https://www.townlands.ie/louth/lower-dundalk/ballymascanlan/jenkinstown/jenkinstown/
Both townlands in the RC parish of
Lordship
Archdiocese of Armagh | County of Louth
Variant forms of parish name:
Ravensdale
Lordship and Ballymacscanlon
Ballymascanlan
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0191
You need to go through the baptism records.
Good luck
N.B. Ravensdale is in Co Louth.
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Or you could look for the family in the 1901/11 censuses
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
or death records
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/
Both of these will give you a more precise year/s in which to search.
Or if the couple emigrated or moved to England/Scotland then track down the death cert/census data from there and work back on the registers that Kiltaglassan has given
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Can you give the rest of the information that we cannot see.
What name for witnesses?.
Do all parties sign?.
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Can you give the rest of the information that we cannot see.
What name for witnesses?.
Do all parties sign?.
Here's the link-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11324/8156010.pdf
Witnesses- John Hanlon, Catherine Hanlon
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Thank you everyone who has replied and the helpful links. Neither of the witnesses John or Catherine Hanlon signed. Also I don't know whether they are brother and sister to Thomas or whether John is a brother and Catherine is his wife.
I found Alice on the 1901 and 1911 census. She is shown as married but Thomas is not with her.
1901 census address Slievenaglogh, Jenkinstown, Louth Married age: 55 with daughters Mary & Kate
1911 census address Slievenaglogh, Jenkinstown, Louth Married age 69 with daughter Mary Hanlon and granddaughter Mary Sheelan.
Questions: where is Thomas? I can't find him on either census. Their eldest daughter Mary was born 1873 Sleivenaglough, Dundalk. Birth registered by Alice. Their youngest child John's birth in 1888 was registered by Thomas.
Where and when was Thomas born? was it Rampark, where he was living when he married Alice?
Where and when did Thomas die and who registered his death?
I can see that there is quite a bit of trawling to do to find Thomas son to a Laurence/ Lawrence? without knowing where he was born or died.
Thanks dinkey
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1911 census address Slievenaglogh, Jenkinstown, Louth Married age 69 with daughter Mary Hanlon and granddaughter Mary Sheelan.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002937274/
Granddaughter Mary Ellen Sheelan born 26 August 1899 at Rathcor townland. Her mother Annie nee Hanlon.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02030/1778497.pdf
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5229902#map=13/53.9917/-6.1915
Marriage 28 November 1896 - Patrick Sheelan to Annie Hanlon.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10508/5827508.pdf
Their eldest daughter Mary was born 1873 Sleivenaglough, Dundalk. Birth registered by Alice.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03187/2168641.pdf
Actually, the birth registered by Thomas Hanlon.
Anne Hanlon (from the above marriage) born 1875.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03092/2133746.pdf
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Where and when was Thomas born? was it Rampark, where he was living when he married Alice?
Farmers tend to stay put. You didn’t spend 50 years improving a farm to then move to another one, if you could avoid it. So you would expect Thomas to have been born in Rampark. Griffiths Valuation for 1854 lists Laurence Hanlon on plot 22a in Rampark. I don’t see a death for him 1864 onwards, so would guess he died between 1854 and 1863, in which case there may be no record.
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There is a baptism for a Thomas Hanlon in Carlingford (which is in Louth, but part of Armagh diocese) on March 21, 1839, son of Lawrence Hanlon and Margaret Lymma(?); sponsors are Barney Lymma(?) and Bridget McCann.
In the same parish, there is a baptism for a Thomas Hanlon on December 25, 1852, son of Lawrence Hanlon and Rose Quinn of C. Muckla (spelling?); sponsors are Patrick Hanlon & Rose Quinn.
Lawrence & Rose had two other children -- residence given as C. Muckle
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There is a Thomas Hanlon aged about 66 years, fish dealer, of Rampark, widower, who died 29 March 1891. Informant is his daughter Rose of Rampark. Unsure of connection but worth pursuing:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06082/4735038.pdf
Also, another death of a Thomas aged 55 years, married, farmer, who died 10 December 1891 in Cornamuckle who is likely one of the baptisms I identified in my other note. Informant is his wife Mary.
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In the same parish, there is a baptism for a Thomas Hanlon on December 25, 1852, son of Lawrence Hanlon and Rose Quinn of C. Muckla (spelling?); sponsors are Patrick Hanlon & Rose Quinn.
Good find!
Here's the link-
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632503#page/20/mode/1up (top left page)
The townland (C. Muckla) probably Cornamucklagh.
https://www.townlands.ie/louth/lower-dundalk/carlingford/drummullagh/cornamucklagh/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5201327#map=12/54.0721/-6.2622
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When Alice dies in 1921 aged 77, she is married and a farmer's wife of Slievenaglogh; informant is Owen Price, a relative. This suggests that Thomas is still alive somewhere. Her various ages give a birth year of 1840-1845, and Thomas was likely older.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05091/4397969.pdf
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Alice Hanlon had a brother called Mathew McBride. He is almost definitely this Mathew McBride who lived in Liverpool and worked for an oyster dealer from Dundalk called Bernard Johnston
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/15973926:7619?tid=&pid=&queryId=19036108-ef9c-419f-a389-a52fb966c35e&_phsrc=Nja4&_phstart=successSource
Mathew died at his sister Ann Hanlon’s house in Slievenaglogh on 11 Nov 1883 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06346/4820438.pdf
According to the death certificate he was an “oyster hawker” and married.
He may be the same Mathew McBride who married Catherine Rogan in Liverpool on 7 May 1876 (on the certificate his occupation is given as oyster dealer and his father is James).
He could also be the same Mathew McBride who was my grandad’s uncle’s godfather when he was baptised at St Augustines in Liverpool which is why I researched him in the hope of working out how they were related (my McBrides were from Rampark)
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Mathew died at his sister Ann Hanlon’s house in Slievenaglogh on 11 Nov 1883 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06346/4820438.pdf
The informant on the death record was his brother-in-law Thomas Hanlon.
7. Thomas 1858-1930. Married Isabella Raymond (1856-1900) in Belfast.
……………………………………
Had children Robert John Raymond, 1877; Mary Edith 1879;………………
Some URL links-
Thomas HELRICH (as transcribed) married Isabella RAYMOND on 30 January 1877 at St Anne's Parish Church, Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11122/8071977.pdf
Robert John Raymond Hilrich born Ballysessy, Camlin, Crumlin. MMN Raymond.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/02990/2095571.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/massereene-upper/camlin/crumlin/ballysessy/
Mary Edith Hilrich born 12 October 1879 also at Ballysessy, Camlin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1879/02899/2061920.pdf
Always beneficial to copy and paste links.