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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Wednesday 27 March 24 16:27 GMT (UK)
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I'm really struggling with the 3 medical conditions that contributed to the death of a GG uncle in 1887. If anyone could help that would be wonderful. Thank you in advance.
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Pleuritis 1month
Empyema 10 days
Syncope Sudden
Boo
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Thanks Boo. That's very helpful to know.
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A web search for each cause (main and contributary) will give you an explanation for the medical terms recorded.
Boo
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Yes I have had a quick look thanks. In terms of what the main and contributory causes are - how would you know? In this case there are two chest infections and then feinting/loss of consciousness...
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The causes of death (to the best of my knowledge) are entered in order with the main one first followed by any contributory ones.
The record gives the time since each was diagnosed so its likely/possible that the other two were complications resulting from the first?
Boo
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Pleuritis 1month
Empyema 10 days
Syncope Sudden
Boo
Excellent Boo, my thoughts as well.
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Thanks Boo. That makes some sense. I don't have too many certificates that have multiple causes so still working out what is the most significant.
The other one I was looking at was Parturition and Typhoid Fever 16 days. I was not sure whether this meant that she died after giving birth of typhoid fever. Sorry it's a bit off topic!
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Do you have a date of birth for the baby (assuming the wee one survived)? Does that indicate she had typhoid fever prior to giving birth (that seems to say the typhoid fever was diagnosed 16 days prior to 'her' death.
Perhaps if she was ill prior to giving birth then the effort of the actual birth was the main cause rather than the fever - though the fever may have been a contributory factor as it would have made her weaker than normal? (it can be 'really' hard work giving birth!)
I have no real medical knowledge though, so that's just my best guess.
Boo
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The other one I was looking at was Parturition and Typhoid Fever 16 days. I was not sure whether this meant that she died after giving birth of typhoid fever. Sorry it's a bit off topic!
Do you have a date of birth for the baby (assuming the wee one survived)?
So glad you brought this up! Going from memory, Overlandermatt's post about the typhoid-ridden Selina Pope was more a debate on whether her husband was in the Royal Navy or not, as the initials RN were difficult to read. I totally forgot about getting the registrations for baby hoping to see a clearer version of the "RN" , but by the time I got them, the issue was resolved, and the baby's registrations didn't help with the "RN" debate
I don't think the date of Selina's death showed on the clip, however the information for the baby is as follows (Matt, if you pm me an email address, I can send the images to you):
Birth
When and where: 18 May 1876, 1 George Street
Name: ---
Gender: Girl
Father: Joseph Pennington
Mother: Selina Pennington formerly Pope
Father's occupation: Ship's corporal, RN
Informant: X mark of Mary Ann Pope, present at the birth
1 George Street, East Stonehouse
Death
When and where: 18 May 1876, 1 George Street
Name: --- Pennington
Gender: female
Age: 5 minutes
Father: daughter of Joseph Pennington, ship's corporal RN
Cause: Premature, certified by L. Pearse MD
Informant: X mark of Mary Ann Pope, present at the death, 1 George Street, East Stonehouse
What was the date of Selina's death? That might help figure it all out?
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Thank you Bbart - that is very helpful and enlightening.
Selina died on the 28th May 1876 - so 10 days after giving birth. Interestingly, her mother Mary Ann, who was present at the birth, lost her own mother during child birth. The baby survived and took her mother's name.
I've often wondered looking back through the records how many children were born and died shortly after birth or as infants that slipped through the 10 year census returns that alert us to their existence. How did you find this one out of interest?
I'll PM you as requested. Thanks again.
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How did you find this one out of interest?
You had mentioned the year Selina died in one of your replies in the "RN query" post, so using the GRO, with the year, surname Pennington, and mother's maiden name as Pope, and trying both male and female for birth/death, both vitals appeared.
These records I will be emailing are just the digital images, so there are no headers for the columns, but I'm sure you've seen enough to figure it out!
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Thanks Bbart.
I must admit I did not even know premature births and deaths were recorded... Although I think there is a column for such entries on a later census?
Thank you.
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My understanding is that as long as the baby took a few breaths on its own after birth, so not "stillborn", the baby had to be registered. Whether or not everyone followed that rule, with so many home births, is another question!
Somewhere I read there is a record of still-borns, but I don't know if it is online, or when it started, or if it even exists. Hopefully someone here knows more about that!
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Somewhere I read there is a record of still-borns, but I don't know if it is online, or when it started, or if it even exists.
This Rootschat post by AntonyMMM will help to understand the legalities
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=879568.msg7519941#msg7519941
and according to this page, only parents of the stillborn child who are named on the registration (or a sibling of the child if they can supply death details for both parents) can apply for the record.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50164/family_history_research/1558/civil_registration_records/8
Boo
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This Rootschat post by AntonyMMM will help to understand the legalities
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=879568.msg7519941#msg7519941
and according to this page, only parents of the stillborn child who are named on the registration (or a sibling of the child if they can supply death details for both parents) can apply for the record.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50164/family_history_research/1558/civil_registration_records/8
Thanks very much for that, Boo!