RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: Nadine Moore on Saturday 17 January 09 16:01 GMT (UK)
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Ok, like everyone I have eagerly awaited this as I hoped it would help me. Not yet, it seems ??? so I am looking for some pointers on how best to search before I make myself bankrupt with the cost ;D ;D
The info I have is as follows
1901 Census - Eynseford, Kent
Mary Jane Hill, Head, b 1843 Canada
Sarah Ann Adams, daughter, b 1874 Lancashire
William Robert Adams, grandson, b 1898 Wandsworth
Along with Sarah's sister Florence Hill & brothers William Hill & James Hill.
Sarah then moved about as she had her children
Pretoria May Hill, b 02/07/1901, 3 Best Cottages, Crockenhill, Kent
Annie Elizabeth Pearce Adams, b 09/12/1903, 3 Tylers Hill, Crockenhill, Kent
Frederick Charles Donald Adams, b 26/01/1906, 7 Alexander terrace, Swanley, Kent
There is then a gap until another 2 daughters
Maude Evans Adams, b 12/02/1912, 37 West Hill, Dartford
Emily Adams, b c1913 (not found her birth yet) d 1915 Dartford workhouse.
In 1914/1915 Sarah & some of the children are in the dartford workhouse, where Sarah dies, so I am assuming they stayed around the Kent area.
I have looked at Alexander Terrace and West Hill but can't seem to find any of them as either Adams or Hill (Sarah used whichever name she felt like).
So, can anybody give me some advice on how to try and find this family in 1911. Are these addresses all in the same area of Kent so I could just put one place in, or am I destined to spend a furtune searching?
All advice gratefully received (by my bank balance especially ::) ;D )
Thanks
dinie
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Not sure if its the right one but there is a Pretoria M Hill living in Dursley Gloucestershire of the right age?
Nashua
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Hi Dinie
Have a look at this thread, some useful tips
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,353037.0.html
Susan :)
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I can see a Frederick Adams b 1906 in an Institution (Dartford)
That dursley one seems to have Daniel (1863 ) & Isabella (1868) as head.
PJ
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Hi dinie
Sarah, Annie and Frederick Adams are all in an "institution" in Dartford in 1911, presumably the workhouse. Can't find a Pretoria May Hill 1901, but there is an Ethel Pretoria Hill born 1901 living in a Household in Bromley Kent. Just located them by entering their names and Kent in the search page, which is free. You then have a choice of paying for credits, either to see the transcription (10 credits) or the original (30 credits). You should only need one transcription or original to see all three, assuming they are in the same insitution.
Incidentally, if you have registered previously with 1837.online or findmypast, you should use the same password (I found this out the hard way. ;D)
Gillg
A general remark - out of 6 transcriptions I found 2 mistranscriptions - William instead of Millicent and Ellingborough instead of Ellington. I reported them to the site and they are being corrected, but how many more are there out there? Be on the lookout for misspellings and use the ** system if you can't find the names you are looking for. Another example - looking for an Irish Mc*** surname, but only the part of the name following the Mc was transcribed!
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There is a May Adams in the institution in Dartford as well bn 1902 - could this be Pretoria
Rosie
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There is only one William Robert Adams b 1898, and he had the additional name Charles and is living in Rye in Sussex. There is a William Adams in a Dartford household, and then a couple of others in Kent.
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Hi Dinie,
The Bromley family are actually in Chelsfield (RD42 SD3 ED2). Here's the rest of the household:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
Paul
Moderator comment: Please do not post transcriptions which are generated directly from the search results. Thay may constitute a breach of copyright or a breach of the site terms and conditions.
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All I can say is WOW - yet again Rc'ers respond so quickly.
Thank you for all you replies, I wasn't expecting you to look for them but I will check them all out.
Pretoria (My Grandmother) was always known as May (and her surname changes from Hill to Adams at some point too) but Rosie may have found her. The three Gillg also found look promising too. (I too found out the hard way about getting into the site :D )
I guess I was expecting them to be in a household somewhere, didn't consider they may have been in the workhouse/institution prior to the 1914/15 one.
Thanks again, now this may kickstart me researching again.
dinie
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The places mentioned are all within a quite small area of north west Kent. I suggest you ignore other girls named Pretoria as that was a common name at that time - end of the Boer War.
Dartford is the main town of the area and was the centre of a large paper-making trade. Swanley is about 4 miles away as the flow cries and Crockenhill is a small old village again only about 2 miles from there - at the time your ancestors were there it was the centre of a significant market garden area. Eynsford also had a paper mill and is in the immediate area.
I have attached a jpeg of Hasted's map of 1779 of the area. The copyright of this image belongs to me so you are welcome to print off a copy.
You mention West Hill as a place for which you searched but not in the transcribed information. West Hill is in Dartford itself and had a hospital and orphanage. But young orphan boys mostly went to the Little Boys Homes in Hextable - in the middle of this area.
The main road through Crockenhill is Cray Road on one side and Eynsford Road on the other. There is a Tyler Green Road close by.
Now - great news - if you put Best Cottage Crockenhill into you browser search you will find an actual picture of the Best Cottages!
Alexander Terrace no longer exists.
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Hack
Thank you for that, the map is wonderful, and to see a photo of the place my grandmother was born even better. I see that site was only very recently updated too.
I've looked at the institution records and think thet the entries for Sarah, May, Fred & Annie are possibly all mine as the ages and places of birth match my records. However, there is no way of finding out what institution they are in. I wonder if the children were in the orphanage and Sarah in the Workhouse as in 1914/15 I have the workhouse records which confirm the children were in the workhouse orphanage at that time ( and went to & fro the infirmary regularly).
Am I able to find out the institution or do I have to wait a few more years for this info to become available. Is it worth trying to obtain further workhouse records for this period?
cheers
dinie
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I think the discussion was that the transcript includes the address for institution 'households' (no space for address on the handwritten page)
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I'm sure the address will be somewhere on the paperwork of the original image; we will soon be given access to the other papers which are included in the original image price.
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I'm sure I read in another thread that you can reveal the name of an institution by clicking on the 'print preview' option (or its proper name - I forget). Haven't been there myself, but it's on a RC 1911 tips thread I read earlier.
Pinot
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Another example - looking for an Irish Mc*** surname, but only the part of the name following the Mc was transcribed!
I would suggest if you don't find your Mc***'s then try again with a space between the c and next letter, Mc ***. Found my McGurn's this way.
Jean
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I'm sure the address will be somewhere on the paperwork of the original image; we will soon be given access to the other papers which are included in the original image price.
It certainly should be but my gtgt grandad was in a workhouse and the address is not on the page.
Paul
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The Dartford institution is at RD43 SD3 ED28 which comes out in Wilmington.
Paul
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I'm sure the address will be somewhere on the paperwork of the original image; we will soon be given access to the other papers which are included in the original image price.
It certainly should be but my gtgt grandad was in a workhouse and the address is not on the page.
Paul
I think that if you click onto the TRANSCRIPT icon instead of the IMAGE icon when it comes up scroll down to the bottom of the page you will find the
address of the workhouse.
Jean
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I think that if you click onto the TRANSCRIPT icon instead of the IMAGE icon when it comes up scroll down to the bottom of the page you will find the
address of the workhouse.
Thank you Jean, found it now.
As I thought, Sarah was in the Dartford workhouse and the three children Pretoria (May), Fred & Annie were in Manor Gate which, I believe, was the children's home associated with the workhouse.
If I contact the centre for Kentish studies again, would they possibly hold further information about this period in the workhouse. I have the information from 1914/15 when Sarah died there.
It seems at though the family had a hard life and I can understand more why my gran never talked to my Mum about her childhood very much.
cheers
dinie
dinie
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The Dartford institution is at RD43 SD3 ED28 which comes out in Wilmington.
Paul
This is the reference for the Manor Gate children's home.
The workhouse reference is at RD43 SD3 ED29.
I'm not sure at what age the children would move from Manor Gate to the main workhouse.
dinie
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I'm sure the address will be somewhere on the paperwork of the original image; we will soon be given access to the other papers which are included in the original image price.
It certainly should be but my gtgt grandad was in a workhouse and the address is not on the page.
I gather not, but there's more to come.
Currently, when you view an original page on the census, you are looking at one of the household schedules. The enumerators’ summary books are not available yet, but when they are (shortly after launch) you will be able to view up to eight extra pages that are associated with any household schedules you have paid for, at no extra cost.
There's a list of extra papers somewhere, but I can't find it at the minute. It might be in the blog.
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Paul
As Jean said earlier, when you find the person you want, click on the View Transcript button then scroll to the bottom of the page and the address & reference details are there.
That's how I found the children's home and workhouse refs.
I'm pleased to say I have located my original family and although most of them were in the workhouse/childrens home, William was living with his Mum's sister - so that's a whole new family I have found
cheers
dinie
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Hopefully, this is still of interest to you, my first post helping someone back.
I was also looking for Alexander Terrace in Swanley area. Turns out i t is Alexandra Terrace (long gone) which the helpful folks at Swanley historical society have stated, "Gone but not forgotten by many Swanley people are the rows of houses of Montague Road/ Castle Road/ Alexandra Terrace which were between the railway sidings and High Street, behind The Working Mens’ Club. Known as ‘Do as you like Street’ occupants knew how to enjoy themselves, as shown in Keith’s photographs of street parties, despite severe overcrowding and the smell from the manure delivered to the nearby sidings from London." This extract from 1907 OS shows the location
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101428419.
As I am really struggling to find any more info about my great grandparents Isabella Howell and Harry Phillip WAYE (don't show up in census or electorals) anything you know about Alexandra Terrace greatly appreciated.
Paul