RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: ValmaiOwens on Monday 10 June 13 21:46 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm just new to RootsChat, but I have researching my family ancestry for quite some time on Ancestry.com. While I have a lot of information on certain Anderson family members, I have hit the proverbial brick wall with four of my great uncles, and I'm hoping some one here might be able to help. I apologize in advance for this long post.
Let me give some background first. My 3rd great grandfather was Alexander Anderson, born 27/7/1796 at Drainie, Moray. He married Margaret McIntyre born 19/10/1803, at Forres. They had 8 children that I know of, 6 boys and 2 girls. Their 3rd son was baptized Alex John Anderson, but in any census records I have found the name Alex has been dropped and he is listed merely as John Anderson born 6/3/1837, Drainie. John Anderson was my 2nd great grandfather. He married Isabella Stalker McArthur, (another brick wall) and they in turn had 7 children that I know of, one being another John Anderson born 17/9/1861, Elgin. John is my 1st great grandfather. He married Christina Paul, born 6/9/1862, Auldearn, Nairnshire.
John and Christina married in 1882 at Broadshaw, Auldearn, but it appears John may have had an illegitimate daughter in 1881 named Isabella Stalker Anderson (I have yet to confirm that) John and Christina had 4 sons. William Anderson born 1883, Elgin, John Anderson (my grand father) born 1885, Rothes, James Anderson born 1887, Alves, and Alexander Anderson born 1889, at Rafford. Christina died the same year as Alex was born due to complications with the birth.
Two years after Christina's death, John marries an Elspet McLean from Knockando, a lady 10 years older than himself, and they move down to Lanarkshire taking John, James and Alexander with them. William for some reason, stayed behind with his grandparents, William Paul and Margaret Dawson, in Auldearn. I can't find any definite record for William after 1901 when he appears on the census living in Falkirk, Stirling, as a servant. James also disappears off the radar along with Alexander. In 1906, Elspet dies and John moves back to Nairnshire where he marries again, a woman quite a bit younger than himself, Elizabeth Fraser.
Between 1901 and 1908, my grandfather joined the Merchant Navy, and during WW1 was attached to the Royal Navy as Stoker Petty Officer on the HMS Jason. In 1912 he married my grandmother Matilda Ethel Henstridge in Warminster, Wiltshire and had two sons born 1913 and 1915. In 1917, John was medically discharged from the Navy due to terrible wounds he received when the Jason was mined off Coll Island. Three years later he packed up my grandmother and their two sons, and immigrated to New Zealand. In 1922, my mother was born.
This is where Alexander reappears again briefly, in family photographs taken between 1922-abt 1930, unfortunately, after that time I can't find any record for him. An old picture of James and William reappeared just recently, and it seems James married and had a child. I have attached the pictures in case some one just might have some information.
Incidently, there was another brother or half-brother, previously unknown to me that I discovered on my great grandfather's death record in 1937, Robert Anderson. I have searched in vain for a birth record for Robert so I can find who his mother was, but at this stage I have come up empty handed. It's altogether very frustrating!
Description of pictures as they appear in order:
1st picture is of William Anderson. When and where unknown. On the back there is simply the name Bill.
2nd picture is of my grandfather in uniform circa 1930, New Zealand.
3rd picture is of James, his wife and their child. When and where unknown. On the back of the picture is has Jim, Becky and baby Iris.
4th picture is of Alexander on a ship. When and where unknown. The name Alec appears on the back.
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Hi,
Welcome to RC.
I don't have time to look at this in detail.
I'm really just replying so that I get alerted to other responses you might get.
I have Andersons on my maternal side (mum's mum) in the Morayshire area around the era you're talking about.
My particular line left Morayshire for Wick, Caithness (boat building family), and some, subsequently to Glasgow where I now live. Some of the family appear to have gone back from Caithness to Morayshire.
It might be interesting to collaborate, but for the time being, I just don't have time. You're welcome to request an invite to my tribal pages sit (link below) and have a look around at what info I have online.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Thanks very much for the reply and welcome.
There were several Anderson lines living in Morayshire at that time. My great grand aunt Margaret Paul married into another Anderson line, whom some members subsequently moved into the Glasgow area. There could very well be a connection there somewhere.
If and when you have the time, I would be happy to collaborate. If you are interested, I can send you an invite to my tree on Ancestry.com There may be some information of interest to you on it. In the meantime, I will request an invite to your tribal pages and see what you have there.
Thank you again
Valmai
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Received your request and have responded.
If nothing comes through soon, have a look in your spam folder - sometimes my messages via tribal pages are regarded as Spam - depends on ISP.
Access to your Ancestry site would be great, but as I say, could be an age before I get the time to look at it thoroughly.
Thanks,
Dave
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If you have not yet come across it, the free website Libindx allows you to search for folk from Moray.
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Yes, I got your response and have created an account on your site.
Access to become a guest and to have full access to my family tree on Ancestry has to come via email from the Ancestry site. If you don't feel comfortable in handing out your email address, I think you can sign up on Ancestry without having to pay and still view public member trees, but I'm not entirely sure how much access you would have to records, photographs and stories I have there. My tree name on Ancestry is Anderson/Henstridge/Owens username v_j_owens. Think about it anyway and let me know what you decide.
Incidently, as I am residing the USA at present I'm using the American site, Ancestry.co.us
Thanks
Valmai
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Thanks again,
I actually subscribe to Ancestry so when I have the chance, I'll be able to find your tree.
If there IS anything we want to discuss / share, I'll happily give you my email address at that time.
Dave
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Thanks GR2. I have used Libindx quite a bit and found some very useful information there for other Andersons in my line. Lindsay Robertson from the Moray Burial Ground group has also been of enormous help, and I have countless birth, death and marriage records from Scotlandspeople, but I can't find anything conclusive for William, James and Alexander, at least not yet.
Alexander for one could have stayed on in New Zealand, but I have a feeling he left at some stage and lost contact with my grandfather. James may have moved to England and married there, but I have also found several James Anderson's immigrating to Canada. William could very well have served in WW1 as there are several who have the same year of birth and are from the same area. Unfortunately, none of them have relatives listed on their army records. Robert Anderson, well there are plenty of those on SP and I have been slowly buying records to see if I get a hit. Nothing yet, sadly.
Valmai
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Well if you already subscribe to Ancestry you shouldn't have any problems getting access to my tree.
It's far from complete mind you, a bit of a work in progress, but I have over 4000 people on it and over 1000 pictures, stories and records. I also have a ton of records I haven't added yet, so if or whenever you have time to look and you find something of interest, I'll be happy enough to send the info and/or original picture, record etc.
Valmai
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I'm just new to RootsChat, but I have researching my family ancestry for quite some time on Ancestry.com
I very much hope that you are not reyling solely on A******y for your research.
You cannot properly research Scottish forebears using A******y alone because they do not have access to the originals of Scottish birth/baptism, banns/marriage, death or census records. Those are available only through Scotland's People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk or, in the case of pre-1855 births/baptisms and banns/marriages and the census, on microfilm at libraries in Scotland and via LDS Church Family History Centres worldwide.
Also, there are trees online there and on other sites which include information which can be proved to be wrong by reference to original documents.
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Hi
There are two Naval Service Records on the NA website, one for a John, the other a William Anderson both born Rothes around the dates you provided. What is interesting is that their service numbers are consecutive, which suggests they enlisted together, so are perhaps brothers.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_fn=&_ln=anderson&_no=&_pl=Rothes&_sdb=&_edb=&_ser=ADM+139&_ser=ADM+188&_col=online&_dt=R&image1.x=46&image1.y=21 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_fn=&_ln=anderson&_no=&_pl=Rothes&_sdb=&_edb=&_ser=ADM+139&_ser=ADM+188&_col=online&_dt=R&image1.x=46&image1.y=21)
Martin
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Hi
"There are two Naval Service Records on the NA website, one for a John, the other a William Anderson both born Rothes around the dates you provided."
302651 is my grandfather John Anderson's service number. I have his discharge certificate here signed by King George. I found him listed on the Mercantile Marine crew lists several times, and I tracked him down in N/A, but I never took notice of the men listed above or below him. Both John and William have different dates of birth, but perhaps they lied about their age in order to enlist.
Anyway, thanks so much for alerting me to this. I will order William's records and see what they reveal.
Cheers
Valmai
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I very much hope that you are not reyling solely on A******y for your research.
Hi,
I'm not relying solely on Ancestry. That is a mistake I have seen many people make, including my own brother and nephew who have tree's on the site. I will do a general search on Ancestry to see if I get any hits or hints, and from there I start to research thoroughly, finally backing everything up with official records purchased from Scotlandspeople or N/A if they have them available. I have many, many birth, marriage and death records, also census and valuation rolls.
However, it is important to note and for new people starting their research, that even official records aren't always correct. I have found many errors on records that are simply just a spelling mistake. That one small error can put one of course when doing a search so every time I find one I contact SP and alert them to it.
Cheers
Valmai
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Hi
There are two Naval Service Records on the NA website, one for a John, the other a William Anderson both born Rothes around the dates you provided. What is interesting is that their service numbers are consecutive, which suggests they enlisted together, so are perhaps brothers.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_fn=&_ln=anderson&_no=&_pl=Rothes&_sdb=&_edb=&_ser=ADM+139&_ser=ADM+188&_col=online&_dt=R&image1.x=46&image1.y=21 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_fn=&_ln=anderson&_no=&_pl=Rothes&_sdb=&_edb=&_ser=ADM+139&_ser=ADM+188&_col=online&_dt=R&image1.x=46&image1.y=21)
Martin
Hi Martin,
I wanted to get back with you and let you know that I purchased both records for John and William Anderson, and William and John enlisted in the Royal Navy on the same day. Physical descriptions of both men listed on the records are too similar for them not to be brothers. I'm not sure what the age requirement was for enlistment in the Navy at time, but both men listed their year of birth, one year earlier than their actual birth. Interestingly, William only served for 2 years. His last run was on the HMS Challenger where the ship's port of call was Auckland, New Zealand. At least now I have proof that William was in New Zealand.
Valmai
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Valmai
Thanks for coming back with an update, it's always nice to know where leads take fellow RootsChatters. Just out of interest did William jump ship, shown by the words 'Run' on his record, because two years is an unusual period of service?
Martin
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Valmai
Thanks for coming back with an update, it's always nice to know where leads take fellow RootsChatters. Just out of interest did William jump ship, shown by the words 'Run' on his record, because two years is an unusual period of service?
Martin
Hi Martin,
Interestingly enough, "Run" does appear on both William and my grandfather's records. I didn't realize 'Run' meant jumping ship, but it seems that's exactly what William did in 1905. I am confused about his record though, because another man appears on it, a Robert Gregson. His service number was 302649 and why he is on my Uncle's Naval record I have no idea. I would like to send the record to you if I could, for you to take a look at it and see what you think about it. Would this be okay?
Incidently, my grandfather served 88 days for his 'Run' from the HMS Doris in 1908, and it looks like he tried it again later on. His record is hard to read in some places.
Valmai
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Hi Valmai, I have come across your post as I am also searching for some info on Robert Anderson who I only became aware of recently whilst researching the Anderson side of our family & like you I found him on John Anderson's death certificate. I apologise in advance as this may turn into a lengthy post. Through my research I had found that John Anderson had married Christina Paul & that sadly she had died very young, I had not got far enough yet to find that they had any children or that he had had a second marriage to Elsie McLean, therefore I have gained a lot of knowledge from your post, Thank You. As you say John Anderson went on to marry an Elizabeth Fraser in 1910, they appear on the 1911 Census for Auldearn-Brodie area No 3 Broombank Cottages, they are listed alone, not yet married a year with no children, John is listed as 2nd Horseman on Farm age 45 having been born in Elgin & Elizabeth 33 born Nairn. In 1912 they had a daughter Elizabeth Anderson, this is our connection to the family as she was my husband's mother, I would assume that Robert was her brother, however as I have not found either of their birth certificates yet I cannot confirm. ELizabeth had 6 children in total as follows,
John Anderson 1937 / Annsa Anderson 1939 both deceased.
Patricia Begg 1942.
Alexander James Hall 1947 / Allan Raymond Hall 1949 ( my husband )
Robert McTavish 1963
John's wife Elizabeth Fraser Anderson died 13/02/1956 age 79(Eliza on certificate), at this time she was living with Elizabeth junior, my husband his brother & Dad in the Elgin area.
Elizabeth Anderson Begg died 07/05/1967 age 55, at this time she was living with her little boy Robert McTavish.
I hope you see this post as it has been a while since your last post.
In summary it would appear that John had 4 children with Christina & 2 with Elizabeth.
Kind Regards Catherine Hall
Elizabeth Anderson Begg
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Hi there. I'm wondering if we're connected also. I'm a descendant of Andersons of Auldearn also. My gt gt gt grandparents were Margaret McIntosh and Alexander Anderson and I am descended from their son John, who married Mary Rose and had 6 children. Their two sons were Alexander born circa 1861 and John born 1863 and they both left Scotland in 1883* and emigrated to Australia. My great grandfather was Alexander who went on to Norfolk Island and had many children. One son, Alexander Anderson (my grandfather) moved with some of his family to NZ. I'll go into ancestry and do more research. PS, I have visited their graves in Auldearn where I was able to fill in many gaps for information from the early 1800's
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Hi there. I'm wondering if we're connected also. I'm a descendant of Andersons of Auldearn also. My gt gt gt grandparents were Margaret McIntosh and Alexander Anderson and I am descended from their son John, who married Mary Rose and had 6 children. Their two sons were Alexander born circa 1861 and John born 1863 and they both left Scotland in 1883* and emigrated to Australia. My great grandfather was Alexander who went on to Norfolk Island and had many children. One son, Alexander Anderson (my grandfather) moved with some of his family to NZ. I'll go into ancestry and do more research. PS, I have visited their graves in Auldearn where I was able to fill in many gaps for information from the early 1800's
Hi there,
I'm not sure if we would be connected because it was my great grandmother Christina Paul who was born in Auldearn. The Paul family at one time was well known in the area. My great grandfather, Christina's husband, did live in Audlearn for a while and died there in 1937. He too is buried in Auldearn cemetery but has no grave marker. I will look into though and visit the graves next year when I am back in Scotland. If you find anything more could you let me know and I will do the same.
Cheers
Valmai
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Is there an Edward Anderson in your research; probably in his 20s or early 30s around 1930/35?