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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: John Scott 1959 on Monday 04 January 21 10:31 GMT (UK)
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Hi all.
Hopefully I have posted this in the right place. I am only 6 months into my ancestry exploration and after looking back at what I have done and what I know now I sure wish I could start afresh.
With that my research and DNA test has not been particularly useful in finding out about my Paternal Grandfather Frank George Scott.
I only have an aged aunt and uncle, his daughter and son, to ask any questions. They know next to nothing about their father in terms of his parents, his date of birth etc. He never gave away info other than he was from London. I do have some records for him through Ancestry such as his WW2 POW records and his England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007 record. This record said that his Death Age was 63 and Birth Date was Jun 1905.
With that clue on the birthdate I searched on Ancestry I found the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915 record and found a Registration Year of 1906, Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec, Registration district Islington and Inferred County London.
I did see that the date was a year difference between the birth and death registration, but it was the only matching name. With that I fired off to the UK and received a birth certificate back. I have to admit to even more confusion and am keen on any advice as to what to do next.
The certificate gave the names of his parents as Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott formerly Hann. Hann was transcribed incorrectly in my opinion as all other research has found Hamm being the correct name. Then I got very curious. The 1911 census shows Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott had two children but both had died. I am unable to find another birth against their names so have no idea who the other child was. Also was my Grandfather Frank George Scott the correct birth certificate I requested. And my DNA matching has me worried. All other Grand parents have matches on Ancestry but not this line. With my Grandfather not telling his family a thing about his past I speculated he may have been adopted out as I read that prior to 1926 there are no UK records. But the census says two dead children.
I am giving thought to getting my grandfather’s military records that requires me to purchase a physical copy his death certificate. I am OK with that, but I have read on this forum that there is a very long wait for these at present. I am wondering if there is another way of doing this and not having to wait for maybe a year or two.
I have read the forums excellent pinned guides but feel a bit overwhelmed as to what direction to take from here. I am only on Ancestry at present though have searched other resources that give me the same information mostly. Any ideas will be gratefully received. Thanks. John.
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The 1906 birth looks to have a corresponding death:
Name:
Frank George Scott
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1906
Registration District:
Islington
You mentioned a service record, is that under Frank George Scott or George Frank Scott?
Out of area, but have you checked the Francis George Albert Scott 1906 Portsmouth birth, even if only to rule it out?
What was his wife's name? If they are in the 1939 register, a date of birth on that might help.
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Do you have his marriage certificate as that should give details of his father, ie name & occupation. Sometimes the marriage witnesses names are helpful.
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Deaths Jun 1969
SCOTT Frank George -Je1905 Reading 6a 385
This may be his birth?
SCOTT, FRANK GEORGE HANN
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 175
Colin
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The 1906 birth looks to have a corresponding death:
Name:
Frank George Scott
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1906
Registration District:
Islington
You mentioned a service record, is that under Frank George Scott or George Frank Scott?
Out of area, but have you checked the Francis George Albert Scott 1906 Portsmouth birth, even if only to rule it out?
What was his wife's name? If they are in the 1939 register, a date of birth on that might help.
Thanks. I have just found that. I was looking under my grandfathers entry in Ancestry but had not considered an independent search. Unfortunately I suspect that that rules out my previous research and thoughts.
Frank George Scott it is. I found his POW records that match what little I know of him. It has a service number and regiment.
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Do you have his marriage certificate as that should give details of his father, ie name & occupation. Sometimes the marriage witnesses names are helpful.
No I don't. I had not thought of that. I am a bit concerned about ordering one though as I understand it is taking a while to get the order through. Also I am in Australia, and it would have to come via mail. They do not seem to be doing PDF unfortunately.
I am happy to do this but am looking for quicker options I suppose.
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Deaths Jun 1969
SCOTT Frank George -Je1905 Reading 6a 385
This may be his birth?
SCOTT, FRANK GEORGE HANN
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 175
Colin
That is the info I have but am not sure that I have the correct Frank George Scott after a reply above.
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Dec 1900 Islington 1b 394
SCOTT Francis Charles H
HAMM Alice
SCOTT, GUY mmn HAMM
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 207
Jamjar
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You missed my other Q:
. What was his wife's name? If they are in the 1939 register, a date of birth on that might help
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Dec 1900 Islington 1b 394
SCOTT Francis Charles H
HAMM Alice
SCOTT, GUY mmn HAMM
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 207
Jamjar
This has already been covered.
The certificate gave the names of his parents as Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott formerly Hann. The 1911 census shows Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott had two children but both had died.
The 1906 birth looks to have a corresponding death:
Name:
Frank George Scott
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1906
Registration District:
Islington
Debra :D
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If he served during the war then he won't be on the 1939 Register.
Debra :D
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You missed my other Q:
. What was his wife's name? If they are in the 1939 register, a date of birth on that might help
Sorry. His wife was Doris Violet Elson (my grandmother) but they got married in 1933.
He had a 2nd wife who he married in 1962. He died in 1969 and the register says
Name
Frank George Scott
Death Age
63
Birth Date
Jun 1905
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Dec 1900 Islington 1b 394
SCOTT Francis Charles H
HAMM Alice
SCOTT, GUY mmn HAMM
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 207
Jamjar
This has already been covered.
The certificate gave the names of his parents as Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott formerly Hann. The 1911 census shows Francis Charles Henry Scott and Alice Scott had two children but both had died.
The 1906 birth looks to have a corresponding death:
Name:
Frank George Scott
Event Type:
Death
Registration Quarter:
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year:
1906
Registration District:
Islington
Debra :D
I don’t know what you mean that it has been covered.
I was showing other births to the couple.
Death:
Dec 1903 Islington 1b 143
Scott Guy 0
Jamjar
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. All other Grand parents have matches on Ancestry but not this line.
Have you attempted Colour Clustering your results? See
https://www.danaleeds.com/dna-color-clustering-the-leeds-method-for-easily-visualizing-matches/
which might give you a steer towards your four sets of great grandparents.
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I don’t know what you mean that it has been covered.
I was showing other births to the couple.
Death:
Dec 1903 Islington 1b 143
Scott Guy 0
Jamjar
That family is probably discounted as their son Frank George Scott died in infancy.
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. All other Grand parents have matches on Ancestry but not this line.
Have you attempted Colour Clustering your results? See
https://www.danaleeds.com/dna-color-clustering-the-leeds-method-for-easily-visualizing-matches/
which might give you asteer towards your four sets of great grandparents.
Wow! Thanks for that. This may take me a few days but I will let you know how it goes.
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I don’t know what you mean that it has been covered.
I was showing other births to the couple.
Death:
Dec 1903 Islington 1b 143
Scott Guy 0
Jamjar
That family is probably discounted as their son Frank George Scott died in infancy.
I agree. I have to admit disappointment as I am a bit stuck now.
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I think as has been mentioned before that your father's marriage certificate is the best way forward & a good purchase. Sometimes we do have to wait for results!! Meanwhile you can be trying other avenues.
At the moment post is not being accepted to go abroad at our local post office, do you have any contacts in the UK who could order the certificate for you & scan & email you a copy?
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I think as has been mentioned before that your father's marriage certificate is the best way forward & a good purchase. Sometimes we do have to wait for results!! Meanwhile you can be trying other avenues.
At the moment post is not being accepted to go abroad at our local post office, do you have any contacts in the UK who could order the certificate for you & scan & email you a copy?
Yes I do and will make contact over the next weekend.
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Do come back to us when you get any further information :)
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Puzzled...I ordered three certificates/registration from the GRO on the 23 of Dec and the pdf copy for two was there in "my orders page" on the 28th. There is box when you process your order that you can select to use this option.
Don
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You can only get PDF's for birth & death. The marriage certificate is a paper copy
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Mariage Sep 1933 Westhampnett 2b 1115
Elson, Doris V.
Scott, Frank G.
Doris V Scott born 1914 is in Bognor, Sussex, in the free index to 1939 Register
The Bognor Regis Observer may have a report about Doris and Frank in 1953.
Ancestry tree, never use them, but one has
Frank George Scott
Born 1905
It says "Spent his time with an "Aunt" Annie/Anny Stamp"
But has nothing more on Annie Stamp.
Could this be something?
Anyway, given the Bognor area connection, a possible one seems to be the lady who died in 1958
Sep 1958 Chichester 5h 486
Stamp, Annie E.
age 77
Probate for her
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=stamp&yearOfDeath=1958&page=1#calendar
Widow of Nelson Cottage 47 Ivy Lane Bognor Regis, died in hospital 18 July 1958
Probate to William Thomas Arthur Stamp
I think that is her son
Birth, June 1917 Romford 4a 844
Stamp, William Thomas Arthur
mother Jordan
Brief obit of Annie Stamp in the Bognor Regis Observer, 25 July 1958
Death Of Mrs. A. E. Stamp. The death took place at Bognor Regis War Memorial Hospital, on Friday night, of Mrs. Annie Elizabeth Stamp (77), of Ivy Lane, South Bersted. Mrs. Stamp was born at the White Horse in Chichester Road, where her father and mother, Mr. and Mrs. D. J. Jordan, a well-known Bersted couple, also ran a coach building and farrier's business. For more than 30 years, Mrs. Stamp was a teacher at South Bersted Sunday School, which she had attended as a child. She was also actively connected with the Church and the Mothers' Union. The funeral took place at South Bersted Church on Wednesday.. Mrs. Stamp the widow of Mr. H. Stamp, leaves a son, Mr. W. T. Stamp, who is Assistant Publicity Officer for Bognor.
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Birth
June 1881 Westhampnett 2b 407
Jordan, Annie Elizabeth
mother Harris
Baptism, 17 July 1881, South Bersted
Annie Elizabeth
parents Denwood John + Ellen Jordan
Father a Coachbuilder
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6XL7-7T2
Marriage
Dec 1911 Westhampnett 2b 852
Henry T Stamp
+
Annie E Jordan
1891 census, South Bersted
piece 842 folio 68 page 17
Annie E Jordan, 9, born South Bersted
With mother Ellen, 48, born North Mundham
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4D5W-CMM
1901 census, South Bersted
piece 965 folio 78 page 12
Annie E Jordan, 19
With mother Ellen, now 55, born London?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSJ3-CZQ
Free index to 1911
South Bersted
Annie Jordan, 28
With Mother Ellen Jordan, 68
Also listed with them in the index are
Kathleen Hogg, 11 (niece)
Georgie Scott, 5 (cousin)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X714-K7W
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Is this Georgie? :-\
SCOTT, GEORGE
Mother's Maiden Surname: BATTEN
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 353
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Mariage Sep 1933 Westhampnett 2b 1115
Elson, Doris V.
Scott, Frank G.
Doris V Scott born 1914 is in Bognor, Sussex, in the free index to 1939 Register
The Bognor Regis Observer may have a report about Doris and Frank in 1953.
Ancestry tree, never use them, but one has
Frank George Scott
Born 1905
It says "Spent his time with an "Aunt" Annie/Anny Stamp"
But has nothing more on Annie Stamp.
Could this be something?
Anyway, given the Bognor area connection, a possible one seems to be the lady who died in 1958
Sep 1958 Chichester 5h 486
Stamp, Annie E.
age 77
Probate for her
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=stamp&yearOfDeath=1958&page=1#calendar
Widow of Nelson Cottage 47 Ivy Lane Bognor Regis, died in hospital 18 July 1958
Probate to William Thomas Arthur Stamp
I think that is her son
Birth, June 1917 Romford 4a 844
Stamp, William Thomas Arthur
mother Jordan
Brief obit of Annie Stamp in the Bognor Regis Observer, 25 July 1958
Death Of Mrs. A. E. Stamp. The death took place at Bognor Regis War Memorial Hospital, on Friday night, of Mrs. Annie Elizabeth Stamp (77), of Ivy Lane, South Bersted. Mrs. Stamp was born at the White Horse in Chichester Road, where her father and mother, Mr. and Mrs. D. J. Jordan, a well-known Bersted couple, also ran a coach building and farrier's business. For more than 30 years, Mrs. Stamp was a teacher at South Bersted Sunday School, which she had attended as a child. She was also actively connected with the Church and the Mothers' Union. The funeral took place at South Bersted Church on Wednesday.. Mrs. Stamp the widow of Mr. H. Stamp, leaves a son, Mr. W. T. Stamp, who is Assistant Publicity Officer for Bognor.
The info about Annie Stamp is from my tree on Ancestry that is open to view. I had not followed through on the info about Annie Stamp so thank you for that.
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Is this Georgie? :-\
SCOTT, GEORGE
Mother's Maiden Surname: BATTEN
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in WESTHAMPNETT Volume 02B Page 353
I am not sure on this. All other info Frank George Scott. I will have to look deeper.
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Hi
I can't say who Georgie Scott from 1911 is. It's a bit of a puzzle at the moment.
But it certainly looks interesting, if you have been told of a connection between Frank George and an Annie Stamp.
FamilySearch have BTs for South Bersted going up to 1912, hoped there might be a baptism, if indeed he was from there, haven't seen one so far, in 1905 or 1906.
Good luck!
John
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There are two merchant seamen records online, is this your man: He was a 3rd class waiter.
George Frank Scott born 16 June 1905 Bognor Regis
Height: 5 ft 4 and a half,
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Brown
Complexion : Fresh
Distinguishing Features: Tattoos on various parts of his body
Claire
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The documents were dated 1936 and 1937 and one included his signature. You could perhaps use it against his marriage certificate or military records to see if it's the same man.
Claire
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There are two merchant seamen records online, is this your man: He was a 3rd class waiter.
George Frank Scott born 16 June 1905 Bognor Regis
Height: 5 ft 4 and a half,
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Brown
Complexion : Fresh
Distinguishing Features: Tattoos on various parts of his body
Claire
I think this is him Claire.
Thank you so much.
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The documents were dated 1936 and 1937 and one included his signature. You could perhaps use it against his marriage certificate or military records to see if it's the same man.
Claire
I don't have any documents with his signature but I have saved this for when I do.
Thanks.
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This has been wonderful, and I can not thank you all enough for your contribution. I have found a military record from 1922 that has a 16-year-old George Scott with a next of kin as an Aunt named Annie Stamp and a birthdate of 16/06/05. I have been able to look for the birth record on GRO and found his others maiden name as Batten. I have ordered a PDF of the certificate. I now have a lot to work with.
I know I am sounding gushing in my thanks, but I really appreciate everyone's help. To think that what I thought was a throwaway name of "Annie Stamp" by my aunty has been of such assistance. I have learnt a lot, and I am looking forward to further research into this line of my family.
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Great research by all, I've really enjoyed reading this & how the magical mystery has been revealed, well done!
JS, it's just a pity you hadn't included the info. on Annie Stamp in your opening post which has turned out to be the main lead although understandable.
This was how I found out who my g g/mother really was as her father had died prior to her birth & she'd been brought up by her g/parents under their surname on census' which was the surname my aunt had recalled although my aunt had no knowledge of the circumstances or her real surname so that little thread of info. opened up so much for me too i.e. I know that feeling of excitement all too well :)
Annie
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Great research by all, I've really enjoyed reading this & how the magical mystery has been revealed, well done!
JS, it's just a pity you hadn't included the info. on Annie Stamp in your opening post which has turned out to be the main lead although understandable.
This was how I found out who my g g/mother really was as her father had died prior to her birth & she'd been brought up by her g/parents under their surname on census' which was the surname my aunt had recalled although my aunt had no knowledge of the circumstances or her real surname so that little thread of info. opened up so much for me too i.e. I know that feeling of excitement all too well :)
Annie
Thanks Annie. I have genuinely learnt a lot. Excitement? I had to go for a walk ;D
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I know I am sounding gushing in my thanks, but I really appreciate everyone's help.
You don't sound gushing; just grateful & it's lovely. Anyone who helps far prefers any type of thanks to none :D
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I know I am sounding gushing in my thanks, but I really appreciate everyone's help.
You don't sound gushing; just grateful & it's lovely. Anyone who helps far prefers any type of thanks to none :D
:) :)
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Hi
Re Ellen Harris she married Denwood John Jordan 14.2.1870 St. George’s Hannover Square, London.
Marriage per Ancestry image.
Their children found so far
Nellie b.1874 Canada
Thomas b,1879 South bersted
Harriet b. 1877 “. “
Spendlove
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Hi
Your Grandfather also visited Canada. Both documents appear on Ancestry.
In the Canada(Ocean Arrivals) dataset he appears as 17 years old from Bognor. Arriving in Canada to learn the trade of farming, passage was paid by his employer. His next of kin on that document was his father a 'Mr Frank Scott' of 28 Moreton Place, Westminster SW ( This address does exist but I can't find a Frank Scott living there) - although there is a Frank Herbert Pattinson in 1925 , may be worth checking this guy out
Arriving back in England 1925 (7 March) onboard the Montcalm his returning address is given as Laurel Cottage, Ivy Lane Bognor - where Annie Stamp was living.
Claire
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Hi
Your Grandfather also visited Canada. Both documents appear on Ancestry.
In the Canada(Ocean Arrivals) dataset he appears as 17 years old from Bognor. Arriving in Canada to learn the trade of farming, passage was paid by his employer. His next of kin on that document was his father a 'Mr Frank Scott' of 28 Moreton Place, Westminster SW ( This address does exist but I can't find a Frank Scott living there) - although there is a Frank Herbert Pattinson in 1925 , may be worth checking this guy out
Arriving back in England 1925 (7 March) onboard the Montcalm his returning address is given as Laurel Cottage, Ivy Lane Bognor - where Annie Stamp was living.
Claire
My dad and his siblings always said that their dads dad was a Harry Pattinson or Patterson. My nan said he lived in the Isle of Wight. I have searched and searched this name and hit a blank. I have to admit that your research has shown me a rank amateur on researching. This is a serious lead for me. I have just put the name into ancestry and have hit a lot of stuff that is of serious interest.
Claire I am in awe of you! 8)
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You are very welcome. :)
Everybody on this wonderful site loves what they do and it's been a pleasure to help.
Claire
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Hi all.
I have received the PDF of the birth extract of Frank George Scott. It explains a lot but leaves a lot of questions.
First that my grandfather was born locally after a lot of thought that he was born in London. I have done a search on his parents and as yet have not found anything that can take this line further but will keep looking over the coming days.
A couple of questions to those that may know or at least have an opinion.
The name Norah is spelt Norah in column 5 but Nora in column 5. The writing looks the same to me across the columns. If so would the registrar maybe filled in the name but maybe write it incorrectly?
The registration took place, as per column 8 on 13th July 1905 but the birth was a month earlier. Is this usual?
Can there be false information given to registrars of birth records back in 1905? My thinking is that maybe the names of the parents could be falsified because of possible "scandal"? I am maybe overthinking this but the profession of Commercial Traveller and the fact that the father was found in London under the name Frank Herbert Pattinson on later records has me wondering why the secrecy. Also, my Grandfather being on a 1911 censor as a cousin living in the place he was born with neither parent there.
Again thanks to all for your assistance and I will keep searching. John.
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. All other Grand parents have matches on Ancestry but not this line.
Have you attempted Colour Clustering your results? See
https://www.danaleeds.com/dna-color-clustering-the-leeds-method-for-easily-visualizing-matches/
which might give you a steer towards your four sets of great grandparents.
I only have one 2nd cousin and two 3rd cousins that DNA match me on Ancestry. I have read a bit further, and it seems that it is not worthwhile including 4th cousins. Pity as I was hoping this might assist.
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A couple of questions to those that may know or at least have an opinion.
The name Norah is spelt Norah in column 5 but Nora in column 5. The writing looks the same to me across the columns. If so would the registrar maybe filled in the name but maybe write it incorrectly?
The registration took place, as per column 8 on 13th July 1905 but the birth was a month earlier. Is this usual?
/quote]
The PDF is just a copy of the original registration; Nora would have signed her name as Nora so that is how it has been copied; the registrar used the other spelling and she did not correct them. You are allowed 6 weeks to register a birth so it is not unusual that the birth was a month earlier.
As for false information.....my gt. grandparents registered all 10 of their children (1900-1920) as if they were married....but they weren't.
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Can there be false information given to registrars of birth records back in 1905? My thinking is that maybe the names of the parents could be falsified because of possible "scandal"? I am maybe overthinking this but the profession of Commercial Traveller and the fact that the father was found in London under the name Frank Herbert Pattinson on later records has me wondering why the secrecy. Also, my Grandfather being on a 1911 censor as a cousin living in the place he was born with neither parent there.
The thing was, if a woman professed to be married then it was her word & she could give whatever info. she wanted without question.
It was the mother who registered his birth i.e. anything written were her words although it looks like they were unmarried unless they married outside England/Wales.
The census is only 1 night in 10 yrs i.e. your g/father could have been staying overnight for just 1 night.
Annie
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The thing was, if a woman professed to be married then it was her word & she could give whatever info. she wanted without question.
It was the mother who registered his birth i.e. anything written were her words although it looks like they were unmarried unless they married outside England/Wales.
At the time of registration she could say whatever even without the father present?
Not sure what you mean by “anything written…” etc. Do you think this registration looks like an unmarried couple?
The census is only 1 night in 10 yrs i.e. your g/father could have been staying overnight for just 1 night.
Annie
I suppose I find it interesting that he was born at this address, was there 5 years later on census night, referred to this address on another document I now have and my Aunt told me she lived there with her Mum while he was away in WW2.
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The registration looks like they were a married couple.
The Registrar asked for the details and the mother has given them; the father being shown as a commercial traveller could account for him being absent and so the baby registered by the mother.
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Free index to 1911
South Bersted
Annie Jordan, 28
With Mother Ellen Jordan, 68
Also listed with them in the index are
Kathleen Hogg, 11 (niece)
Georgie Scott, 5 (cousin)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X714-K7W
Kathleen Hogg is daughter of Annie's older sister Nellie Charlotte Jordan. She married James Alfred Hogg in 1896. Nellie was born in Canada abt 1874.
Denwood John seems to have left Ellen, reversed his forenames and set up home with an Isabella Hellyer nee Meaden in Derby.
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"At the time of registration she could say whatever even without the father present?
Not sure what you mean by “anything written…” etc. Do you think this registration looks like an unmarried couple?"
The mother was entitled to register the child without the father being present as she has stated she was married.
If she wasn't genuinely married she wouldn't be questioned unless it was known to the registrar I guess.
I stated it looked like they were unmarried unless they married outside England/Wales as I couldn't find a marriage entry for the parents.
A woman could say she was married, give her husband's name & occupation yet none of it be true.
Annie
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Hi
Your Grandfather also visited Canada. Both documents appear on Ancestry.
In the Canada(Ocean Arrivals) dataset he appears as 17 years old from Bognor. Arriving in Canada to learn the trade of farming, passage was paid by his employer. His next of kin on that document was his father a 'Mr Frank Scott' of 28 Moreton Place, Westminster SW ( This address does exist but I can't find a Frank Scott living there) - although there is a Frank Herbert Pattinson in 1925 , may be worth checking this guy out
Arriving back in England 1925 (7 March) onboard the Montcalm his returning address is given as Laurel Cottage, Ivy Lane Bognor - where Annie Stamp was living.
Claire
Interesting that the father on the birth cert is also Frank Herbert Scott
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From previous info. posted it seems Frank Herbert was using both surnames or at least is the same person, maybe he was illegitimate using both parents surnames at different times?
Could be quite an interesting story :)
Annie
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From previous info. posted it seems Frank Herbert was using both surnames or at least is the same person, maybe he was illegitimate using both parents surnames at different times?
Could be quite an interesting story :)
Annie
Yes. I am happy to have got where I am considering I was flailing badly prior to finding RootsChat to find anything on my Grandfather but the conjecture I heard from my dad and his siblings over the years has me so curious now. I rang my aunt last night and told her the further info I have but she could add nothing further. I will keep looking.
Again thanks to everyone. John.