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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Horsley2016 on Monday 12 February 24 10:49 GMT (UK)
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Hello there,
I'm trying to uncover more about my Great Grandmother Mary Jones, born 1858 in Llanddulas. I know her Father's name was Thomas and he was a 'Rockman' and the family at some point between her birth and her marriage in 1877, they moved to Liverpool (she marries in Liverpool.)
I possibly have a link to unravel but it's a bit tenuous at the minute. Looking at the nearest Church - St Cynbryd's, in 1852 an Emma Davies married a Thomas Jones then in 1858 a Mary Jones was baptised there and the address Tyn Y Wal, which I think was a farm. Unfortunately I can't find any 1851 / 1861 Census record of this address and by 1871 it appears to have been running in the 'Evans' family.
I'm trying to find Mary's birth record and on GRO there are many options. My question is, back in 1858, what would the registration district be known as for Llanddulas, where the birth would have been registered?
Many thanks for helping if you can.
Mx
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St Asaph
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/places/regindex2-2.pdf
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Thank you so much CaroleW
Mx
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Baptism;
18 Apr 1858, St Cynbryd, Llanddulas
MARY, Daug of THOMAS/EMMA Jones
Abode Ty'n-y-Wal
Father a Rockman
(Source FeeREG)
Trish :)
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Also on FreeREG siblings;
Louisa bapt 9 June 1853
Anne bapt 21 Oct 1855
JONES, LOUISA mmn DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in ST ASAPH Volume 11B Page 370
1871 Louisa is visting in Lancashire a Evans Family
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There is a Burial of a THOMAS Jones 22 Aug 1864 age 39 (c 1825)
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Maybe ignore that Burial.
Is this Thomas/Emma in 1871?
Thomas Jones 40 Head Mar Quarreyman
Emma Jones 41 Wife
David Jones 10 Son
Evan Jones 4 Son
Jane Jones 1 Daughter
All born Llandulas, Denbighshire.
JONES, EVAN mmn DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in ST ASAPH Volume 11B Page 422
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Amy Ann EARNSHAW bapt 22 Aug 1875, St Cynbryd to GEORGE/Louisa
Born Huddersfield, Father a Warehouse Man
1881 Amy is with her Mother Louisa visiting Thomas/Emma Jones
Cant see the Family 1861 yet.
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On the 1851 Census Thomas Jones, age 19, quarryman, born Abergele, is with parents Evan and Elizabeth and brother John at "Tyn y Wall, village of Llandulas". About 10 households away are the Rectory and Bôd-hyfryd - which can be seen on this 1872 map
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102341156#zoom=6&lat=6839&lon=5196&layers=BT
Thomas' marriage cert confirms father as Evan Jones, Rockman.
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Thank you so much everyone. This is far more information than I expected and opens up plenty of lines that have puzzled me for a long time! I shall sift through it all. What I have done today is found Mary's birth certificate on GRO which confirms her Father is Thomas, a 'Stone Quarry Labourer' and that she was born "in the village of Llanddulas" on 19 March 1858, Mother is Emma - MMN Davies.
Since then, I can see Mary's baptism which has Tyn Y Wal as place of birth. I can also potentially see a marriage record for Thomas and Emma in 1852. Both marriage and Mary's baptism at St Cynbryd, Llanddulas.
It's interesting, as I can only place Thomas in Liverpool around 1877, when Mary marries Griffith Owen in Liverpool. Thomas' address on the marriage certificate for his daughter says he is at 105 Gregson St. Using the electoral registers, at this address a William Evans was living there in 1871 but between 1874 - 1878 (over the time of the wedding) a Samuel Davies is listed as being there... I can't find the 1871 Census record.
Mary dies young from TB in 1887 in Liverpool.
I 'think' in 1871 I can see Thomas (46) and Emma (41) with children David, Evan and Jane at '7 Square, Llanddulas' (I think)
In 1881 I think they are at '5 Tyn Y Wal' Thomas (50) Emma (51) with David, Evan and a Louisa Earnshaw (27) married, born in Llanddluas but appears to be wih her children Amy (6) and Beatrice (11 months), now all living in Huddersfield. I thought Tyn Y Wal was one farmhouse, however, this Census has numbers next to it like it's a road which has me puzzled?
So I'm wondering if Mary was 'sent' to Liverpool young as she's not on the 1871 Census here? I can find, in Fletcher St Liverpool a Mary Jones (13) Lodger who is living with a Jane Jones (widow) 42 and a Dressmaker from Llangollen. This lists Mary as being born in Liverpool though that could be a mistake of course?
Thomas doesn't appear to have settled in Liverpool?
Much to ponder , review and cross reference with all your lovely help. I shall go through it all. Thank you so much. It's really appreciated.
Mx
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So I'm wondering if Mary was 'sent' to Liverpool young as she's not on the 1871 Census here? I can find, in Fletcher St Liverpool a Mary Jones (13) Lodger who is living with a Jane Jones (widow) 42 and a Dressmaker from Llangollen. This lists Mary as being born in Liverpool though that could be a mistake of course?
Mx
Quite possible she went to Liverpool to be in service as a maid. They started young ten, and often went some distance. A lot from North Wales went to Liverpool
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Hello all,
I'm starting to build a picture of this side of the family. However, I'm trying to find out when Emma Jones (MMN Davies) may have died. In the 1881 Census she is at 5 Tyn y Wal, Llanddulas.with her husband Thomas and various children.
10 years later, I can't find her or any of the family on the 1891 Census. At 5 Tyn Y Wal a John Evans and family are living. Historically Thomas and Emma seem to stay between Tyn y Wal and 'The Square' in Llanddulas. The only 'event' I know of around that time was their daughter Louisa dying in Huddersfield in 1890. In fact I'm struggling trying to find any of the families marriages other than Louisa and Mary! It's Emma I'm focussed on at the moment though.
Any pointers /tips/ help are gratefully received.
Mx
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To help eliminate one.
Emma Jones burial Llanddulas 24 July 1886 is the wife of a Robert Jones. She isn't quite the right age but was worth looking at.
Not much help really 😉
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To help eliminate one.
Emma Jones burial Llanddulas 24 July 1886 is the wife of a Robert Jones. She isn't quite the right age but was worth looking at.
Not much help really 😉
Eliminating one is a help - truly! Thank you!
Mx
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Is this Louisa
Lancs online parish clerks
Marriage: ? ? 1874 St Thomas, Liverpool, Lancashire
George Earnshaw - full, Tramcar Conductor, Bachelor, Liverpool
Louisa Jones - full, Spinster, Liverpool
Groom's Father: John Earnshaw, Cloth Dresser
Bride's Father: Thomas Jones, Stone Mason
Witnesses: James Wilkins; Elisabeth Brownlee
Married by John Carter M.A. by Banns
Notes: [Date obscured by water-damage]
Register: Marriages 1853 - 1876, Page 242, Entry 483
Source: LDS Film 1546064
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It is indeed Louisa. They end up in Huddersfield, Louisa loses both daughters to Scarlet Fever and she dies from TB in 1890.
Other than Mary, I’m struggling to track any of the others as they grow up and marry etc!
They just all ‘disappear’ between 1881 - 1891!
Mx
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1891 Llysfaen. Conway.
Could this be David. Born Llanddulas.
David Jones30Head limestone quarrier.
Amelia Jones33Wife
Thomas Jones6Son
Catherine Jones4Daughter
No obvious marriage in the area and difficult to find a birth reg to find mmn.
Catherine baptised 1887 Llanddulas.
So many Jones 😉
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1891 Llysfaen. Conway.
Could this be David. Born Llanddulas.
David Jones30Head limestone quarrier.
Amelia Jones33Wife
Thomas Jones6Son
Catherine Jones4Daughter
No obvious marriage in the area and difficult to find a birth reg to find mmn.
Catherine baptised 1887 Llanddulas.
So many Jones 😉
You are right - so many Jones! I was hoping Amelia being a slightly more unusual name may have led me to a marriage cert but can’t find it on either Ancestry or FindMyPast!
Mx
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On the 1851 Census Thomas Jones, age 19, quarryman, born Abergele, is with parents Evan and Elizabeth and brother John at "Tyn y Wall, village of Llandulas". About 10 households away are the Rectory and Bôd-hyfryd - which can be seen on this 1872 map
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102341156#zoom=6&lat=6839&lon=5196&layers=BT
Thomas' marriage cert confirms father as Evan Jones, Rockman.
Just to say a huge thank you for the link to this lovely map! I'm referring to it quite a bit! A lovely map!
M