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Messages - AlanWatson

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1
Cork / Re: French and Morris
« on: Friday 22 April 22 06:08 BST (UK)  »
Sorry for replying so many years after the original post. I can help with Catherine Morris. Her parents were Jonas Morris JP of Barley Hill co Cork who died 4 Feb 1782 and Mary Townsend who died in 1759. Her brother was Abraham Morris of Dunkettle.

This family features in 'The Pooles of Mayfield' by Irish Genealogist Rosemary ffolliott, now out of print, particularly in a family tree on p 73. I think that Ms ffolliott is probably correct in this part of her genealogy, but unfortunately she makes many mistakes in her description of the early generations of the Morris family.

Jonas Morris's ancestry can be traced back to William Morris of Benduff, which he renamed Castle Salem. He was a Captain in Cromwell's Irish army and was awarded lands in East Carbery in the Act of Settlement. He became a Quaker and his descendants moved in and out the of Quakers over a few generations. His son Fortunatus Morris married an Elizabeth Morris. Their son William Morris married Quaker Dorothy Lecky and their son Jonas was the person in question. (ffolliott is wrong about the parents of both Capt William Morris and his daughter-in-law Elizabeth.)

Mary Townsend's parents were Catherine daughter of Col James Redmond Barry MP and John Townsend of Skirtagh.

I am currently looking into the Morris family and could provide more information about them if it would help.

Alan Watson




2
Ireland / Re: Abbreviations in Index to Prerogative Grant Books
« on: Friday 05 March 21 00:11 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks for your replies.

This article https://www.historyireland.com/early-modern-history-1500-1700/inquisitionspost-mortem-inquisitions-post-attainder-lesser-used-sources-irish-genealogy/ says that inquisitions post mortem continued in Ireland, in some cases at least, up until the 1690s and that the papers of these inquisitions were held by the commissioners on public records in Ireland.

The FamilySearch catalogue has the volume here https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/567359?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I wonder whether that is it.

Alan

3
Ireland / Abbreviations in Index to Prerogative Grant Books
« on: Thursday 04 March 21 05:45 GMT (UK)  »
Hi,

I have what I hope is a simple question about abbreviations used in the Index to Prerogative Grant Books.

The page that I am interested in is here http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dw/IRE_DIOC_007246589_00472.pdf

It shows (among other things)

Whiteside, William, Charlemont, Grange, 1695, com, 143
...
Whiteside, William, Ballydonaghy, Antrim, Gent, 1695, W, 158

Since this is an index, I assume that these are references to two different books, a book of wills (W) and a book of something else, com.

I can see a Betham's abstract for the will of the gent of Ballydonaghy, which mentions sons John and William. I think that these two were Quakers who lived in Grange, near Charlemont, Tyrone.

Would the 'com' entry relate to the administration of the 'W' entry? And if so, would the name (William Whiteside) be that of the testator or of the administrator? If it doesn't relate to the administration of the will, what is it?

I can see on the same page that other entries appear to be duplicated in a similar way, for example John Warren has the same pair of a W and a com and John Williams has an l (letters of admin?) and a com.

So what is 'com' and is the name there the testator or what?

Many thanks,

Alan

4
Cork / Re: Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)
« on: Tuesday 29 September 20 15:33 BST (UK)  »
That's a really good find. It would be great to discover details of a second marriage or of his second wife/widow's death. Best of all would be his will. Unfortunately I haven't yet found any of them.

Alan

5
Cork / Re: Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)
« on: Monday 28 September 20 02:46 BST (UK)  »
Hi,

The entry in the death record certainly seems to be her. I can't make out the word after 'widow'. I would be very interested to know what others think is says.

I don't think that your explanation for the children missing from Burke's Irish Family Records can be right. The petition that you found clearly stated that the three children were minors when their father died, which was in 1814. They must therefore all have been born after 1793, ie after all the children listed in Burke. Their parents married in 1783.

The author of the Burke genealogy plainly didn't know when Louisa nee Sandford died, so it is possible that she died before her husband, that he married again and that the children were from a second marriage. However, it is not clear why this should have affected their inheritance of the Coolmore estate which came from their father's rather than their mother's family.

Alan

6
Cork / Re: Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)
« on: Sunday 27 September 20 02:19 BST (UK)  »
In case you haven't seen it already the landed estates database is always worth a look for properties like Coolmore. Here is the entry for the Newenhams

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/family-show.jsp?id=2852

It is interesting that some of the transactions related to the estate were with families whose members married Newenhams like Hodder and your Daunt.

Maryborough, on the same page, was built by Richard the eldest son of my Quaker John Newenham.

Alan

7
Cork / Re: Quaker Newenhams Cork
« on: Saturday 26 September 20 05:31 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: AlanWatson on Thursday 24 September 20 05:22 BST (UK)
One document that appears to link the two families together, although tenuously, is a deed of lease and re-lease dated 3 December 1712 (memorial #3813). Party 2 was Thomas Newenham Esq son and heir of the late John Newenham Esq [the mayor]. This deed was witnessed by Thomas Newenham Clothier of Cork, possibly the mayor’s brother mentioned above, in which case the profession of clothier might have been passed down from him to my Quaker John. Another witness was Thomas Clanchy, of Ballyshadine, Limerick, possibly the family into which my John’s sister Margaret married.


I see that I mis-typed the memorial number of this deed which should be #32813

Alan

8
Cork / Re: Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)
« on: Friday 25 September 20 14:29 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: akissling on Friday 25 September 20 00:37 BST (UK)
I have the father of my Charles (c1805-1851) as William Henry Worth Newenham who died in 1824. Charles and his sister Elizabeth had a dispute with their inheritance-their brother Henry died and they were trying to get the money: https://csorp.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?browse=true&category=27&subcategory=188&offset=1160&browseresults=true
WHW Newenham was named in the will of his son Charles.
I have set up a family tree of just this line on Ancestry and will send you the link. I would be interesting in seeing your tree and where the might meet on your tree if that is ok. I will send a PM. Thanks so much!

I think that the father named in the petition and in Charles' Canterbury Court will (https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_309748-00056?pId=13277) was William Worth Newenham. The petition states that their father left the three younger children 2,500 charged on the estate of William Henry Worth Newenham, who is not described as their father.

Given that William Worth Newenham is described in the petition as 'of Coolmore', he and William Henry Worth Newenham were obviously the father and son with those names described in Burke.

William Worth Newenham of Coolmore b 5 Feb 1761, m 1783, Louisa 4th daughter of Henry Sandford and sister of 1st Baron Mount Sandford ... and d 1 Dec 1814 having had issue

 1 William Henry Worth (of whom presently)
 2 Thomas b 4 Oct 1788; d 1799
 3 George b 1792; dsp 7 Dec 1815
 1 Mary b 12 Aug, d Oct 1786

The eldest son
William Henry Worth Newenham of Coolmore, b 10 June 1785, m 25 July 1807 Catherine (d Feb 1858) only dau of Robert Sterne Tighe ... and dsp 4 Sept 1842 when he was s in Coolmore by his cousin
The Rev Thomas Newenham rector of Kilworth b 14 Oct 1784 and dunm April 1849 when he was s by his nephew
The Rev Edward Henry Newenham MA of Coolmore JP ...

The facts presented in the petition (dated 22 July 1824) suggest that William Worth Newenham left his estate to his eldest son William Henry Worth Newenham subject to a legacy of £2,500 charged against the estate and left in trust for his three minor children. By 1824 one of them, Henry, had died and the other two, having attained majority, applied for his share which had been forfeit to the Crown. (William Worth Newenham may have made other arrangements for his son George who was also alive when his father died, but had already reached majority.)

This implies that Burke omitted the three minor children, Charles, Henry and Elizabeth, which is conceivable, but it doesn't explain how Charles and Elizabeth were overlooked in favour of a cousin when their brother William Henry Worth Newenham died in 1842, and then again when the cousin died in 1849, given that Charles lived until 1851.

I really can't explain this.

Alan

9
Cork / Re: Charles Newenham and Ann Bowler, Snugmore (near Kinsale)
« on: Friday 25 September 20 06:51 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: hallmark on Sunday 13 October 19 10:35 BST (UK)


Detailed abstracts of wills of Newenham of Marybore' in Co. Cork and of Cork City, 1695 -- 1784.
Dublin: National Library of Ireland, Genealogical Office: Ms.139, pp.182-7

You can see them here http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000531511#page/186/mode/1up

I don't know the first testator (Elizabeth Newenham, widow). The second is John Newenham, mayor of cork. The third is his son Thomas. The next four wills are for my Quaker Newenham family (see this thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837880.msg7033482#msg7033482), being John Newenham, Quaker and clothier, his son John, his son George and John's son Richard.

Alan

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