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I am looking for any connections to Patrick Joseph Ryan, b. 10th March 1929 in Holles St hospital, Dublin; d. 28th Sept 1981 in Luton, England.

I only have the information my grandmother told me and very little 'facts'. I was told he was adopted by a family with the surname Coogan and his adoption was before adoptions were legalised. His adoptive family may have had him from a baby or after he had an accident that caused life-changing injuries at the age of 6. The Coogan family I think he may have been adopted by are Thomas and Mary Coogan (nee Hilliard) who lived in Mallin/Mallon Ave. The reason I think it may be them is because my grandmother said he had 2 sisters who died young- Sadie and Molly. It was the only picture I recall seeing of his family- the two sisters, one sitting on a chair, her sister with her hand on her shoulder, standing behind her. Both looking very 'Victorian' to my young mind. The Coogan's had 2 daughters- Sarah and Mary- who died young (Mary in '22 age 17: Sarah in '33 age 26). They also had a son Thomas, who died as an infant. Thomas Snr died in '49 and Mary died in '57.
Is it possible to get information on how he was 'adopted' and by whom? If so, where would I write to?

I was told he was in the Artane, but have since found out that he wasn't or at least, he wasn't there under the name of Patrick Ryan, but I don't know that he ever went by the name of Coogan. I have no evidence of that. My grandmother used to mention the Christian Brothers, so I gather he was taught by them at some point, but not in the Artane. Is there somewhere I can write to find out where he went to school?

He spent time in Stanmore hospital in London when he was 10 for corrective surgery on his back. In the accident at the age of 6, he was hit by a car and broke his back on the kerb, which left him unable to walk and in a plaster bed. He developed scoliosis, was a hunchback for the rest of his life and couldn't walk without a cane. I've found no newspaper articles on the accident, so again it's all hearsay, however, scoliosis is on his death certificate as a 'c' condition. I obtained his birth delivery record and there were no birth defects, etc recorded- he was noted to be healthy and it was a normal delivery.

From 1957 to 1959, he's on the electoral roll for Luton, so he was in England by then. However, he returned to Ireland at some point in 1958-59, because he met and married my grandmother in March 1959 in Dublin. They then left for England to live in June 1959.

Yet everything before 1957 is a mystery. My grandmother told a family member that he was a Doorman at the Metropole Ballroom (I assume that was in the Hotel?). But he was a 4 1/2 foot tall and needed a support to walk, so I can't imagine he was a Doorman, but perhaps a coat or ticket attendant or usher of sorts?

I also have a suspicion he may have been known to the Police. He received cautions in the UK for a specific type of offence and I wondered if there was way to find out this kind of information from Ireland?

There is further information in a post about his parents on
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=844917.0

On my genealogy journey, I've managed to trace most of my lines back to the mid-1800's, but I can't seem to get past Patrick on the Ryan line. He's a complete mystery, because I don't have much more than stories that I'm desperately trying to link up to evidence! So, please- any help at all would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

 

This is a really old post, so not sure if you will check back here.

Your Peter Early's father, Peter, was married to my great, great aunt- Kate Early (nee Oats, nee Friary).
Here's your Peter Early's parents marriage certificate from 1930- the same year he was born:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1930/09046/5273147.pdf

Peter Early & Catherine Oats (nee Friary) marriage- 1919:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09667/5505405.pdf

Peter and Kate had 2 children together, Jane (b.1919) and Bridget (1920), and Kate had 5 children from her 1st marriage, yet only 2 were alive by the time she married Peter (James & George).

I'm going to start with an Blimey! And MASSIVE thank you to you, Sinann.
I'm a little flabbergasted, because your information has inadvertently solved another question about my grandmother's background. It appears you have indeed found the correct Hunters. My grandmother spent time in a place in Wicklow in 1956- she sent a Christmas card to the Regina Coeli from 'Vance Lodge, Bayview, Wicklow', which I'm now thinking may have been a misinterpretation of her handwriting. I even have another post on here about the place.

Obviously, it's only a story my gran knew, but she seems to have had a close relationship with them for many years. They are listed as her employers on personal records from 1947 to 1955, yet in that time she also left Monaghan to live and have a baby in Belfast (1950). From her accounts, they were very generous people and didn't appear judgemental at all. She was an unwed mother on baby no 4 by 1955 and I know in that era, many would not have employed her.

While as Yanniboy says, hospital records pre-1968 were destroyed, you can still obtain the Delivery Ward extract from info@nmh.ie through an FOI request.
I did this for my step-grandfather who was born at Holles St hospital in 1929. It didn't reveal a lot of information, but does include info such as health of child on delivery (plus, weight, appearance of child, etc), parents details and who was present at the birth.

You will need the birth certificate & death certificate of the person whose delivery ward extract you're requesting, and a scan of your photo ID.

Hi dtcoulson,

Not sure what information you've come across on adoptions during that period yet, if any and to be honest, I can't give you specific places to look. I can only share what I know of that period (family stories) and what I've gotten from going through records for my own family.

Adoption was definitely not a formal process in Ireland at that time and quite likely, if a family could not feed/keep their child or the parents had both died, it would be taken in by relatives; taken in by the church or sent to a farm, where it could be raised by staff to eventually work for them. Then there were some families that had the opportunity to get their children out of the country, albeit on the coffin ships to the US or Australia. If the child had no surviving relatives to make that decision, it would have gone to the workhouse and perhaps sent to the US or Australia.

I have about half a dozen surnames of families that seem to have lived close together in these regions and probably intermarried (and therefore mixed DNA) before there were records kept for us to read.


The diversity of romantic connections would have been limited. Remember this is back in an era where travel was a privilege and the population of your whole town was the equivalent to a present day housing estate. It's very likely that cousins married and there were brother-sister matches (siblings from one family marrying siblings from another)- it certainly happened in my family!

Furthermore, the mortality rate was higher and so were the marriage rates, meaning that often if a woman died young (say in childbirth of her 1st or 2nd), her husband would often marry her unwed sister, so she could take care of the child(ren). She would then go on to have children with him.

Surnames were also concentrated to counties in Ireland, bar a few very common names (e.g. there's Ryan's and Lynch's everywhere!), however, even with them there will be a root county (e.g. Ryan's, it's Limerick).

Your conundrum with the names is not necessarily to do with adoption. Look also at variation spellings, depending on what county's you are looking at. In my own family, I have a great x 3 grandfather, who's surname is Friary, yet his brother is Prior. Why? Because he's in Longford and his brother is in Cavan and there was mistake in the name when he registered at the Scrabby parish.
There are spelling mistakes aplenty in the Irish records, which morphed the names (e.g. Prior/Pryor/Friary/Friery/Freary/Frireagh) and there will be English and Irish versions used in some places on the border counties (e.g. Smith/Smyth/MaGouran/McGovern).

Look in to the history surrounding the surnames and you might find some of your answers.

Hope this info helps.

Michelle