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Hi Llanfi

Having visited NLW I am now even more confused. I went through the Bishops Transcripts for Llandefalle. There are some years missing but there seems to be another Jenkin Williams. He married Elizabeth Lewis in 1774 and had a son William in 1776 who died in 1787 and then Thomas. It is just about possible that this is the Jenkin Williams who went to Peterchurch but I cannot find a death for Elizabeth and a second marriage for Jenkin. Jenkin of Petrchurch died in 1809 aged 52(could be wrong) and this would give a birth date of 1757 which would make him an age of 17 at marriage. Seems possible but unlikely that Jenkin Williams would have married at this age. My own opinion is that there were two Jenkin Williams with the inheritor of Velin Newydd having already left Llandefalle for Herefordshire. ( I looked for the baptisms of Jenkin Williams and Mary Beavans first two children but they are not recorded in Llandefalle or Peterchurch)

Second problem is the Will of Jenkin Williams dated 1660.  He was wealthy and owned more that one mill. He mentions his natural brother Edward Parry and his wife Elizabeth which fits with the Will of Edward Parry. Problem is the writing does not seem to match the 1660 Jenkin Williams Will that you have. Please have a look to see what you think. I found the 1660 Will at NLW very difficult to read.

Hi Llanfihangel

Wow you have come up with a lot of information. I have read it twice and still cannot fully understand it. Jenkin Williams son of William Jenkins seems straightforward from the patronymic system where father is William ap Jenkin and son is Jenkin ap William. Grandfather would have been Jenkin ap (Unknown name). I am guessing this was Jenkin Thomas. However, Jones and Nicholls claim the Thomas name was on the female line. i.e. William Jenkins mother was the daughter of Jenkin Thomas and the patronymic system would not have produced the name Jenkin Williams. However the will shows Jenkin Williams did not fully understand welsh custom as he uses the word melyn for Crickbardarn Mill. It should be Melin as in Melin Gwynt (Windmill). Velyn should be Felin as M and F mutate depending on other words in the sentence. If the Jenkins Williams line were not welsh speakers there may be a case for going from Jenkin Thomas to Jenkin William in their understanding. I note he uses William and not Williams. I am not sure why but it is a straight take from his father William(with no s) Jenkins.
Complicated but I think there is something there.You may well have found the Genesis of this section of the Williams family. I still hope to go to NLW as there are deeds there for Skreen and Felin Newydd. They may show some light on this.  I am not sure what Melyn Crickbardarn is doing in this will as I cannot read it properly. What is your view of the will?

Sorry to disappoint you but redkite does not come from the Rheidol Valley. It comes from the Wye Valley and in particular a public house called "The Red Kite" where I misspent part of  my youth -many many years ago.

Redkite23

Hanes Teulu

Hello
I looked further into your idea of Thomas Williams 1737 Steward of Willbrooke. There was also a Jenkin Williams who served on the Leet Court Jury of 1737-1739 for Willbrooke Manor and and his wife actually appeared at the Leet Court in 1744. Jenkin Williams had 2 daughters in Peterchurch -Ann in 1725 and Mary in 1728. Mother was Cecelia in the first one and Sissy in the second-looks like the same mother.  I cannot decide if this family line of Williams is relevant but I am tending toward the view that it is not.

Redkite23

Hi Hanes Teulu

You may be right but it needs investigating. I had initially written this line off as not connected with the Skreen and Llandefalle Williams . However, Jones book in 1809 states the first Thomas Williams (owner of both Felin Newydd and Skreen) died in 1779 aged 61 giving a birth year of 1718. His son also Thomas Williams was born in 1755 while his brother Jenkin Williams was born in 1757. There seems a long gap between 1718 and 1755. Enough time for another Thomas Williams perhaps. I do not think this is likely but there is enough to suggest it should be looked into.
N.B. Where did you get a copy of The History of Ewyas Lacy from ? It is part of the Ancient lands of Archenfield and given a Charter by King John to fight 160 days against the Welsh and 160 days against the English. Apparently the Charter has never been withdrawn. I always wished I was born there but alas I was not.

Redkite23

Hi Llanfihangel.

I can only trace The North Wales Williams in my family tree to 1731 with William ap William. Further back it is all patronymics which I am struggling with.

Redkite23