RootsChat.Com

Quote from: GR2 on Sunday 19 February 23 09:55 GMT (UK)

Quote from: ablanchishere on Saturday 16 January 21 15:58 GMT (UK)

Later in 1890, New Pitsligo, Aberdeenshire, the death register for Charles Grant includes no mention to the alias Brown (although it seems that Isabella Grant's maiden name is McIntosh? A sometimes-used alias of the Grants...).

Re the mother's maiden surname being given as McIntosh rather than Grant, it is not unusual to find errors with the names of parents on death certificates. It all depends on the knowledge of the informant. Even a grandchild might not know their grandparents' names, especially if they had died some time ago or lived in a different area.

Yes, I do think that is quite possible.

I have only found one reference to McIntosh as a maiden name, and I do not think that Peter & Mary Grant/Brown moved with the family from Banffshire to Aberdeenshire in the 1840s. Isabella, the informant, may not have even met Mary/Isabella Grant, but I am not sure of when she died. I have evidence of the in-laws of Charles Grant, the McGregors, moving to New Pitsligo, but not the Grants.

Will have to keep looking in other records to try and clear this up!

I live in Australia, which makes it difficult to access some records, but the digitised records for the areas I am looking into are still great. Do you have any recommendations for where to look for Kirkmichael/New Pitsligo records? I've looked through a lot of the info on ScotlandsPeoples.

Ashley
(Australia)

My turn to apologise now, I too have been off this trail for a while but have just came back across it in regards to Charles, and wondering about the McIntosh (likely alias) too.

however you asked about other sources of info, have you seen the "freereg" site yet?

it's very useful especially for Kirkmichael/Banffshire sources, as someone has been very diligent (Rosemary Skea?)  more so if the transcriber thought to transcribe the "Abode/address" or added notes/ aliases in the note section.

e.g. ref your Colourgreen question which (thank you for asking and to the person who pinpointed an answer for you!) can be seen on this transcription:

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817b06ee93790ec8bf467d4/charles-grant-baptism-banffshire-kirkmichael-1819-10-05?locale=en

the freereg site is transcribed by volunteers so is not perfect however it is human knowledge that comes through from it too. e,g, If you then use it to search for Peter Brown (for example) and then also Peter Grant.. and tick the in family members box in the search it can give a very big clue as to other names to search in the official (ScotlandsPeople) records.

I do tend to agree with you on your findings.. The Brown/Grants did not move to New Pitsligo, but did move to Strathdon..

the McGregors did move to New Pitsligo, and thankfully the family remained close there so there are a lot of census and birth records to go on once you know they're there. However talking about aliases, I very much suspect that Alexander McGregor was born and lived under an alias (due to McGregor proscription)  and that alias could well have been Grant!

so daughter Mary McGregor who then married the Charles Grant, who gives his mothers' maiden name as McIntosh on his death record probably knew each other distantly because of the Kirkmichael/Tomintoul connection, and Charles' family were a little fragmented anyway.. anywhich way all roads lead back to Grants.

the "Brown" Grants were likely named because they came from the Glen Brown area of Tomintoul/Kirkmichael, I've seen other Grants using the name Taylor due to the occupation (Tailor) especially in the new planned village 1775 of Tomintoul which encouraged people with trades, not sure where McIntosh would have come from but it is a known Grant alias in the area, it's quite likely one of those things that only close family would have known who or why. Females didn't tend to carry their father's alias past their marriage if they married someone of the "same surname"

So perhaps the registrant of Charles' death was actually correct in giving his mother's maiden name as McIntosh (even if it was an alias) i.e. they knew Peter was the "male Grant" and that Isabel/la was a Grant too (perhaps completely unrelated), but Isabel/la although having been born a Grant had never used, or known, that surname being born to a father who used the McIntosh alias (unofficially/locally) and she then never used the alias because it was her husband Peter's alias (Brown) that took over on her children's records, so she got her Grant name back.

In this period (before official documention, or at least providing the bare minimum) the family still held the "old ways" of knowing each others' families, and there was so much that went uspoken or documented as to who was who..

a lot of conjecture in there I know, but sadly it's this type of information that was not recorded officially but does make for the fun puzzle we all like to dip in/out of I think our ancestors would be laughing knowing that even AI can't fix this haha!!

Hi, I just came across this today while revisiting some old files

and Yes I have that Peter Grant/Brown in one of our lines, I had been stuck there about 10 years ag too, and then lost my research files 

in Tomintoul (Kirkmichael) at that time there was 2 things going on, 1 was that were so many Grant families they used Tee-Names (aliases/patronymics).. the other was that that there was Highlanders who had taken part in the rebellion who had changed their names to "hide". In the small communities a changed name didn't mean much  as everyone knew who belonged to which family and the tee-name was a way for them unofficially know which family was which.

However once they travelled a bit further afield, whether that was 20, 50 miles or across an ocean then quite often their new name stuck (as that is all the children could remember when giving parents names for marriages etc) whereas those at home knew the original name, but then they, the ones at home, too did not know their extended family has chosen the new name an they lost touch so here we are 

I'm still in Northeast Scotland and even I can't figure them out! I'm tracing Camerons and Campbells, well trying to, and it's a nightmare!!

I had Peter Grant or Brown, married to a Grace (yes Grace) Grant ms: Brown from one record, however now reading all the new information online ince I last looked at this line, what I think  is that Grace ms: Brown is Isabella (Grace) Grant .. i.e. it was a Grant married a Grant and in order to differentiate that's where the Brown Came in, not sure which one of them was the original Brown but it was always usually the male who took the patronymic .. then add that to the fact that anyone would use their first or middle name (or nickname) then I'm fairly sure the family is

Peter Grant (or Brown)  m: Isabella Grant (or Grace Grant)

I have them with 4 children (all born in Kirkmichael, Banffshire)
Mary b: 1811
Isabel b: 1813
Grace b: 1816
Charles b: 1819

could be more if they moved just after 1819

Isabel moved to Tarland/Strathdon (as did a lot of folk from Kirkmichael/Tomintoul)
Charles moved a little further afield, but just in the other direction (more Northeast than stick in the Whisky still hills)

I don't know about the other 2