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Dorset / Re: Bridport; HARE, Christopher; 1621 Marriage
« on: Sunday 08 May 11 22:23 BST (UK) »
Thank you Nanny Jan
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Dorset / Bridport; HARE, Christopher; 1621 Marriage
« on: Sunday 08 May 11 15:08 BST (UK) »
Bridport; HARE, Christopher; 1621 Marriage.
Is it possible for SKS to do a look-up for me please regarding the above?
Mike
Is it possible for SKS to do a look-up for me please regarding the above?
Mike
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Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Look up request for Elizabeth SIMS born Bath & family.*COMPLETE *
« on: Thursday 16 September 10 09:03 BST (UK) »
As far as I know Elizabeth SIMS mother was Charles SIMS wife, [her parents] and I have just checked the register for St Marks, Lyncombe & Widcombe and a Eliza WALTERS married a Charles SIMS there on the 13th of November 1831.
I have also just checked the birth for a Elizabeth SIMS in 1842 and it shows a birth for "her" in the Abbey parish; ABB/3/470. Mothers maiden name; WALTERS. So my mistake in having Eliza WALTERS as Jane's mother, when she was actually Elizabeth's daughter Jane's grandmothers.
Thank you David for clearing up the wrong Bath BMD index reference number which I had as RO1/107/078, it is linked to others on my tree, but I don't know how you managed to look-up the ref number so quickly! brilliant. I also dont know how it got linked to the wrong people!
So after me going all the way around the houses to get there, and spending about 30 years searching, it appears to be almost certain that Jane [Sarah] SIMS was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth SIMS who was the daughter of Charles SIMS and his wife Eliza nee WALTERS. It looks also very likely that Elizabeth had two other illegitimate children over the next 10 years; Emily Elizabeth in 1863 and William John in 1869.
Milk Street was a particularly bad area of Bath as you know David, so I guess no surprise as to the outcome!!
I am very grateful to you David for all your time and help here and elsewhere. I would also like to thank Ralph and Suz for their contributions.
Mike [Bigears]
I have also just checked the birth for a Elizabeth SIMS in 1842 and it shows a birth for "her" in the Abbey parish; ABB/3/470. Mothers maiden name; WALTERS. So my mistake in having Eliza WALTERS as Jane's mother, when she was actually Elizabeth's daughter Jane's grandmothers.
Thank you David for clearing up the wrong Bath BMD index reference number which I had as RO1/107/078, it is linked to others on my tree, but I don't know how you managed to look-up the ref number so quickly! brilliant. I also dont know how it got linked to the wrong people!
So after me going all the way around the houses to get there, and spending about 30 years searching, it appears to be almost certain that Jane [Sarah] SIMS was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth SIMS who was the daughter of Charles SIMS and his wife Eliza nee WALTERS. It looks also very likely that Elizabeth had two other illegitimate children over the next 10 years; Emily Elizabeth in 1863 and William John in 1869.
Milk Street was a particularly bad area of Bath as you know David, so I guess no surprise as to the outcome!!
I am very grateful to you David for all your time and help here and elsewhere. I would also like to thank Ralph and Suz for their contributions.
Mike [Bigears]
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Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Look up request for Elizabeth SIMS born Bath & family.*COMPLETE *
« on: Wednesday 15 September 10 19:30 BST (UK) »
Thanks David
I think you are probably correct and that a lie was the best option. must have lied three times though!!
Elizabeth was aged about 16 years old when she conceived Jane.
She was only about 21 years when she conceived Emily Elizabeth.
She was 27 years when William John was conceived.
When she married Robert WICKHAM she was aged 37 years and perhaps invented her father to save embarrassment.
Her first born [Jane] would have been aged 11 when her brother William John was conceived, so I'm guessing the cat would have been out of the bag, and difficult for Jane to keep that a secret from Robert WICKHAM, unless he knew.
My source for Henry SIMS [also being known as William John] escapes me! I have it on my Family Tree Maker software file. I also have his occupation as Porter G.W.R. In the "Title of Source" box on my Family Tree Maker, it has the source as; Bath BMD Index RO1/107/078, but this could be corrupted. It shows I entered the date in 2006. But age has its problems and I don't recall where I got him from. I do know I wouldn't have made him up, just wish I could remember.
Going back over my SIMS files I came across an e-mail from someone helpful in 2006 with a image of the 1861 census. It shows living at No 2 Lower Borough Walls, Private House, a Elizabeth SIMMS and her daughter Jane. Elizabeth is down as married and Head, but aged 30 not 20, [she would have been 20 in 1861] Jane is aged 2, which if this is the same Jane would be the correct age. Elizabeth's place of birth is Bath, St James, and also that of Jane. Elizabeth is down as Washerwoman. So do you think it possible I am looking at two different people?
Regarding the birth of Jane at Jews cemetery; I believe [memory again] that around the time of Jane's birth there was a family called HILLIER living at the Prayer House attached to the burial ground. Mr HILLIER may have been the caretaker? I do not have easy access to the census returns [only the 1881] to check. So Elizabeth may have been visiting friends or relatives at the time of Jane's birth. There was/is definitely a building attached to the burial ground, very small though.
Sorry David, I don't have certificates for the other children. Regarding William's mothers maiden name on the BMD index as WALTERS.... well I actually had Elizabeth SIMS mother's name as WALTERS on my file [Janes grandmother] not Charles SIMS wife's [Eliza] maiden name!!!! Don't ask me where that came from!!!
So interesting that there are two Elizabeth and Jane SIMS, both roughly the same age. The only fly in the ointment for this is the witness at the wedding in 1886 of Jane SIMS.... Emily Elizabeth SIMS who fits-in with the family of Charles and Eliza SIMS.....
Good game this!!!!
I think you are probably correct and that a lie was the best option. must have lied three times though!!
Elizabeth was aged about 16 years old when she conceived Jane.
She was only about 21 years when she conceived Emily Elizabeth.
She was 27 years when William John was conceived.
When she married Robert WICKHAM she was aged 37 years and perhaps invented her father to save embarrassment.
Her first born [Jane] would have been aged 11 when her brother William John was conceived, so I'm guessing the cat would have been out of the bag, and difficult for Jane to keep that a secret from Robert WICKHAM, unless he knew.
My source for Henry SIMS [also being known as William John] escapes me! I have it on my Family Tree Maker software file. I also have his occupation as Porter G.W.R. In the "Title of Source" box on my Family Tree Maker, it has the source as; Bath BMD Index RO1/107/078, but this could be corrupted. It shows I entered the date in 2006. But age has its problems and I don't recall where I got him from. I do know I wouldn't have made him up, just wish I could remember.
Going back over my SIMS files I came across an e-mail from someone helpful in 2006 with a image of the 1861 census. It shows living at No 2 Lower Borough Walls, Private House, a Elizabeth SIMMS and her daughter Jane. Elizabeth is down as married and Head, but aged 30 not 20, [she would have been 20 in 1861] Jane is aged 2, which if this is the same Jane would be the correct age. Elizabeth's place of birth is Bath, St James, and also that of Jane. Elizabeth is down as Washerwoman. So do you think it possible I am looking at two different people?
Regarding the birth of Jane at Jews cemetery; I believe [memory again] that around the time of Jane's birth there was a family called HILLIER living at the Prayer House attached to the burial ground. Mr HILLIER may have been the caretaker? I do not have easy access to the census returns [only the 1881] to check. So Elizabeth may have been visiting friends or relatives at the time of Jane's birth. There was/is definitely a building attached to the burial ground, very small though.
Sorry David, I don't have certificates for the other children. Regarding William's mothers maiden name on the BMD index as WALTERS.... well I actually had Elizabeth SIMS mother's name as WALTERS on my file [Janes grandmother] not Charles SIMS wife's [Eliza] maiden name!!!! Don't ask me where that came from!!!
So interesting that there are two Elizabeth and Jane SIMS, both roughly the same age. The only fly in the ointment for this is the witness at the wedding in 1886 of Jane SIMS.... Emily Elizabeth SIMS who fits-in with the family of Charles and Eliza SIMS.....
Good game this!!!!
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Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Look up request for Elizabeth SIMS born Bath & family.*COMPLETE *
« on: Wednesday 15 September 10 14:47 BST (UK) »
Hello Suz, David and Ralph (Muffin)
I have been following your comments with great interest, not wishing to but-in in case I confused the topic, but I must admit to being confused and wonder if your great minds can enlighten me PLEASE! as I am a little bit desperate at the moment.
My Great grandmother is the Jane SIMS born on the 6th of October 1859 [I have a copy of her birth certificate] Her mothers name on this certificate was Elizabeth SIMS. The fathers name was left off the certificate, and I have up to a point, assumed Jane was illegitimate.
going by the 1871 census [suzard] Elizabeth is living in the household of Eliza SIMS and Elizabeth is Eliza's Daughter-in-Law. This puts my theory of Elizabeth's daughter Jane being illegitimate as wrong, but why no mention of her father on her birth cert?
On the 1861 census [DRH] Elizabeth is in the household of Charles SIMS and his wife Elizabeth and is marked as daughter!!
On the 1851 census Elizabeth is aged 9 and still marked as daughter. So there appears to be little doubt that Jane SIMS born 6th October 1859 was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth SIMS born c1842, Bath. So why was Elizabeth marked as daughter-in-Law on the 1871 census?
Now it so happens I also have the 1886 marriage certificate of Jane SIMS daughter of Elizabeth SIMS. [Both the birth and marriage certificates were passed on to me when my great aunt [daughter of Jane] died in 1976] On the marriage cert it has Jane's father name as Henry SIMS, Labourer.!!!
One of the witnesses is a Emily Elizabeth SIMS.
On my tree I have;
Jane [aka Sarah] SIMS [as above]
Emily Elizabeth SIMS b 1863, daughter of Elizabeth SIMS and Henry [William John] SIMS.
William John SIMS b 1869, son of Elizabeth SIMS and Henry [William John] SIMS.
Apart from Jane's marriage certificate I can find no reference to Henry [aka William John] SIMS.
In 1879 Elizabeth SIMS marries Robert WICKHAM.
Conclusion...?
Was Elizabeth married at the birth of Jane in 1859? because she is on census as daughter-in Law on the 1871 although daughter on the 1861.
If she was married, why no father on the birth cert?
On the 1851 census it looks like her in the SIMMS household aged 9 years and down as daughter!
Why on Jane SIMS marriage cert is her father down as Henry SIMS, labourer???
HELP PLEASE
I have been following your comments with great interest, not wishing to but-in in case I confused the topic, but I must admit to being confused and wonder if your great minds can enlighten me PLEASE! as I am a little bit desperate at the moment.
My Great grandmother is the Jane SIMS born on the 6th of October 1859 [I have a copy of her birth certificate] Her mothers name on this certificate was Elizabeth SIMS. The fathers name was left off the certificate, and I have up to a point, assumed Jane was illegitimate.
going by the 1871 census [suzard] Elizabeth is living in the household of Eliza SIMS and Elizabeth is Eliza's Daughter-in-Law. This puts my theory of Elizabeth's daughter Jane being illegitimate as wrong, but why no mention of her father on her birth cert?
On the 1861 census [DRH] Elizabeth is in the household of Charles SIMS and his wife Elizabeth and is marked as daughter!!
On the 1851 census Elizabeth is aged 9 and still marked as daughter. So there appears to be little doubt that Jane SIMS born 6th October 1859 was the illegitimate daughter of Elizabeth SIMS born c1842, Bath. So why was Elizabeth marked as daughter-in-Law on the 1871 census?
Now it so happens I also have the 1886 marriage certificate of Jane SIMS daughter of Elizabeth SIMS. [Both the birth and marriage certificates were passed on to me when my great aunt [daughter of Jane] died in 1976] On the marriage cert it has Jane's father name as Henry SIMS, Labourer.!!!
One of the witnesses is a Emily Elizabeth SIMS.
On my tree I have;
Jane [aka Sarah] SIMS [as above]
Emily Elizabeth SIMS b 1863, daughter of Elizabeth SIMS and Henry [William John] SIMS.
William John SIMS b 1869, son of Elizabeth SIMS and Henry [William John] SIMS.
Apart from Jane's marriage certificate I can find no reference to Henry [aka William John] SIMS.
In 1879 Elizabeth SIMS marries Robert WICKHAM.
Conclusion...?
Was Elizabeth married at the birth of Jane in 1859? because she is on census as daughter-in Law on the 1871 although daughter on the 1861.
If she was married, why no father on the birth cert?
On the 1851 census it looks like her in the SIMMS household aged 9 years and down as daughter!
Why on Jane SIMS marriage cert is her father down as Henry SIMS, labourer???
HELP PLEASE
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Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Re: HARE Royal Crescent Bath COMPLETED
« on: Thursday 29 November 07 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the reply "Old Jack"
Don't know of any of my HARE family living at the Crescent, Bath, so don't think we have a link. Having said that, it's always possible, as it's not a common name.
Mine originated around the Taunton area, and they were there at least back to 1600. Whilst some in 1840ish came to Bath. Some HARE families were in the Davenport area, and I believe were connected to chair making.
As far as I know there were two families with the name HARE living in Bath at the time you are interested in, and I have not established if they were related.
May I ask if you know where your miss HARE came from or anything regarding her family or that of her benefactor?
Best wishes
Mike Hare (Bigears)
Don't know of any of my HARE family living at the Crescent, Bath, so don't think we have a link. Having said that, it's always possible, as it's not a common name.
Mine originated around the Taunton area, and they were there at least back to 1600. Whilst some in 1840ish came to Bath. Some HARE families were in the Davenport area, and I believe were connected to chair making.
As far as I know there were two families with the name HARE living in Bath at the time you are interested in, and I have not established if they were related.
May I ask if you know where your miss HARE came from or anything regarding her family or that of her benefactor?
Best wishes
Mike Hare (Bigears)
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Somerset Completed Lookup Requests / Re: HARE Royal Crescent Bath COMPLETED
« on: Tuesday 27 November 07 18:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Old Jack,
Just saw your post. I am related to the William HARE and family at Upper Dover street, Bath. May I ask what your interests are?
Best wishes
Mike Hare
Just saw your post. I am related to the William HARE and family at Upper Dover street, Bath. May I ask what your interests are?
Best wishes
Mike Hare
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Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: Look up request for Louisa HARE, born 1823, Taunton.
« on: Friday 16 November 07 18:29 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tiggi,
May I ask what you have regarding John and Louisa please?
Best wishes
May I ask what you have regarding John and Louisa please?
Best wishes
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Somerset Lookup Requests / Re: (Somerset) 1841/1851/1861 Census Lookup Requests Please For Louisa Rossiter
« on: Thursday 23 November 06 14:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi, thanks,
Is that the Foxcote ROSSITER's and KNOTT's from around Englishcombe ? [Bath]
Is that the Foxcote ROSSITER's and KNOTT's from around Englishcombe ? [Bath]
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