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Topics - Deirdre784

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10
Herefordshire / John Pitchford (c 1834 - 1907) marriage puzzle
« on: Wednesday 29 November 23 11:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, trying to solve a puzzle!

Can anyone find a marriage for a John Pitchford and an Elizabeth please. They were in Yazor in 1881.

John was married in Llanfihangel Rhydithon (Radnorshire) in 1865 to Mary Price. Mary died in premature labour on 10 April 1879, in Yarsop, Yazor, with her death registered by John, widower of the deceased, present at the death. But the only marriage i can find is in Wormsley on 27 Jan 1875 (to Elizabeth Gunter). I haven't bought the certificate as it's not my tree, and the only detail i can find is on Family Search where Elizabeth is noted as being previously married, giving the maiden name Cole. No mention is made of any previous marriage for John. But presumably this can't be the one i'm looking for.

Any help appreciated, thanks

11
Gloucestershire / Robert Gilvear, born 1827 in Inverkeithing, Fife
« on: Tuesday 24 October 23 17:31 BST (UK)  »
Hi, wondering if anyone can help with Robert Gilvear (various spellings over the years, Gillvear, Gilveer, Gilveir, Culvear etc).

Born in Inverkeithing, Fife on 22 December 1827, to John Culvear and Margret Hopert (should be Hooper), he was baptised with his 5 siblings on 5 March 1837 at the church of Sts Philip and Jacob in Bristol. He is one of the eventual 11 children born to John and Margaret as mentioned in this earlier topic looking for help with Margaret and her father.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=876605.msg7485364#msg7485364

Robert married Eliza Tarring on 5 November 1848 at St John's, Bedminster, Eliza a minor, father George Tarring, cordwainer. They appear to have a son Thomas born around 1849 in Bristol, but i can't find a registration to prove mmn or a baptism. Nor can i find Robert after his marriage. In 1861 - where i first found him - son Thomas (transcribed as Gilver) is a boarder with his maternal grandparents George and Harriet (transcribed as Tawing on Ancestry). His mother Eliza is not there.

Eliza appears to have a daughter Elizabeth (registered as Tarring, mother '-') in Manchester in the Jul-Sep quarter of 1860, and then marries a Thomas Edwards in Manchester on 15 Jan 1865, as Eliza Gilver, widow, father George Tarring, shoemaker. The link which i think confirms this to be the same Eliza Tarring (other than references to born in Bristol) is the appearance of a grandson in 1891 - Benjamin Gilvin on ancestry - but likely to be the son of Eliza's son Thomas and his Caroline Bedell, though again, not found on the GRO (but there is a Benjamin Thomas Gilvier born Bedminster in Jan-Mar 1885 on freeBMD), baptised at St Mary's, Redcliff on 3 Dec 1898, son of Thomas and Caroline, giving date of birth as 7 March 1884  ::).

My problem is that i cannot find a death for Robert before Eliza's second marriage in 1865, other than a possible one in Apr-Jun 1891 in Lambeth. But no other census entries for him either. Given the birth of Eliza's daughter in 1860 and her marriage as a widow, obviously they could have separated, variations in his name it seems impossible to track him down, though born Inverkeithing, Fife should make it easier - it doesn't  :(

If anyone can follow this confusing story and find any additional clues, I'd be most grateful. Not my own tree but one i'm doing for a friend.

12
Fife / Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« on: Monday 18 September 23 16:06 BST (UK)  »
First time I believe on the Scotland boards so 'hi'. And apologies in advance for the length of the post....

I'm researching a tree for a friend and am trying to unravel a mystery - the family has been researched many times over the last 50-60 years by her ancestors / relatives but I'm trying to establish the facts, though I appreciate I'm unlikely to uncover the truth.

Margaret Hooper was baptised on 10 March 1839 at St Philip and St Jacob, in Bristol, giving her date of birth as 23 May 1803, daughter of Thomas Hooper, a retired RN surgeon, and his wife Margaret. Thomas and Margaret had married on 26 August 1836 in St Paul's, Bristol, though it seems that they met and lived together in Inverkeithing in the early 1800s, though Thomas subsequently re-joined the navy and moved to Bristol on retirement, joined at some stage by Margaret.

Their daughter Margaret married John Culveer (various spellings over the years) in Inverkeithing on 7 Jan 1827. They had 6 children in Inverkeithing, 1827 (Robert), 1829 (William), 1830 (Margaret Crawford, her mother's maiden name), 1831 (Thomas Hooper), 1833 (Jennet Paton), and 1836 (George Hooper) before the family moved to the Bristol area. Five more children followed between 1837 and 1845.

The mystery surrounds the years between her mother Margaret's death on 30 October 1842, and her father Thomas's will written on 19 April 1844 where he disinherits Margaret (his only known child), claiming that 'whereas I had made a former will making provision for Margaret the wife of John Gulvear, in consequence of her gross misconduct in falsely asserting herself to be my daughter I revoke every bequest made by me in any former will....' and leaves everything to Jacob Crook (and appoints him as executor).  Thomas died on 19 May 1845 of old age and anasarca, at Brandon St, parish of St Augustine - this was the home of Jacob Crook.

The Clifton board of guardians took Thomas to court (newspaper report of 8 June 1844) describing him as a gentleman in 'easy circumstances' and asking the court to compel him to maintain his daughter Margaret, wife of John Gilvear, and her 10 children. Thomas had acknowledged Margaret as his daughter, and supported the family, until October 1843. They lost the case as they were unable to provide evidence of her parents' marriage in Scotland.

I've not found a marriage either, despite trying all variations of both names, but her baptism entry is strange. There is an entry in the Inverkeithing baptisms on Scotland's People (page 176) for a Margaret Cooper, daughter of Thomas Cooper (edited from John in initial post), surgeon, and Margaret Crawford, saying 'born in fornication 22 May 1813 - just one day out, and 10 years - and baptised named Margaret'. However, it appears at the bottom of a page of 1803 baptisms, and the following page is for 1803 too.  It doesn't appear to be in the same writing nor does it have Margaret's name in large letters underneath as do the other entries on the page. All subsequent records, including her second baptism in Bristol, give her birth in 1803. This does seem to support the ideas made by relatives over the years that the entry was somehow changed as a means of invalidating Margaret's claim to be Thomas's daughter.

I do have the ScotlandsPeople images of the 2 relevant pages around Margaret's baptism, and the marriage of Margaret and John.

While I'm not suggesting anything could be done about this now, I'd be interested to see if anyone can find an earlier marriage in Scotland for Thomas Hooper and Margaret Crawford, though I guess that's unlikely given their later marriage in Bristol. I would also love to hear any comments on this rather strange story.

Thanks for reading.

13
The Common Room / timing of probate - proof of divorce
« on: Tuesday 15 August 23 09:35 BST (UK)  »
I have a puzzle - not my own - and would appreciate some help / advice please. Not naming names as it's rather sensitive, but all the relevant parties (except the couple i'm researching for) are dead.

Man born in Berkshire, married first wife in south Wales in 1920, 2 children, deserted them and was kicked out of the police force for misconduct by 1924. Named as father in adoption papers for another child in 1927. Several spells in prison (impersonating a police officer / fraud etc), not believed to have been in contact with family (his parents and siblings, or his wife and children).  Married again in London in 1951, died on 2 June 1966 (piece in newspaper mentioning his wife). BUT, probate was granted (administration) to his widow, the first wife, on 22 August 1966. Just over £2000 (a lot of money in 1966). The couple i'm helping believe that family members had a tip-off about his whereabouts and went to try and find him, but were told that he'd died. 

What i'm struggling to understand is the timing. There's only around 12 weeks between his death and the grant of probate (even if they did find his 'wife' only days after his death). Could the fact that he wasn't legally married to his second wife have been proved in the short space of time?

I'm hoping that the family will now buy the second marriage certificate to see what it says, and the probate (though as admin only i guess it won't help much).

Not got a clue about the probate process in such a case so wondering if anyone has any ideas.

Thanks,

Deirdre

14
World War One / Disem on WW1 medal index
« on: Monday 14 August 23 19:44 BST (UK)  »
Probably a silly question but I can’t work out what ‘disem’ means on a medal index. Trying to piece together a timeline and hoping this is his discharge date - see attached.

Thanks

15
Essex / Annie Browne, born 1857-1860 in Stock, Essex
« on: Saturday 05 August 23 15:19 BST (UK)  »
Hi, can anyone find anything on Annie Browne, born around 1857-1860 in Stock, Essex please?

She married Arthur Moss at St Thomas of Canterbury church in Brentwood on 22 October 1877, father listed as William Browne. No age given in the Essex, England, Church of England Marriages, 1754-1937 records.

In 1871 she appears to be a servant in Bowers Gifford, aged 11 (1860) born Stock, Essex [Class: RG10/1659/21 p1]

In 1881 she is at High Street, Brentwood, aged 23 (1858), born Stock, married to Arthur, a malster's labourer, with children Alice and Arthur

In 1891 she is at 1 Maltings Cottage, James Place, Brentwood, aged 32 (1859), born Brentwood(?), married to Arthur and now with 3 more children Bertie, Mabel and Percy [RG12/1381/77 p 51]

In 1901 she is at 12 St James Rd, Brentwood, aged 41 (1860) born Stock, with Arthur and 2 more children, Rhoda and Leslie.

In 1911 she is at 1 Malting Cottages, James Rd, Brentwood, maybe the same place at the previous 2 censuses, aged 51 (1860), born Stock. They have had 9 children, 2 have died (I've only found one so far, Edgar George 1894-95)

Arthur died in Apr-Jun 1915, registered in Billericay; Annie died on 19 Jan 1917, aged 60 (1857) at 1 Malting Cottages, James Rd, Brentwood, registered in in Billericay

I have all the details on the children, except for the other one who died, and have Arthur before his marriage and parents too, but cannot find Annie's birth or baptism, on the 1861 census, or her father, other than as named in the marriage.

Any help welcome. Thanks

16
Technical Help / unlock password protected pdf
« on: Friday 07 July 23 15:50 BST (UK)  »
not sure why but an application from 3 years ago saved to my laptop is password protected, and i've no idea what it is (tried my usual ones, and my more secure ones). It only comes up with 'check your password'. Is there a way of removing the password? 

Thanks :)

17
Hi, not sure if anyone can improve this family wedding shot? But i’d like help with the ages of the group if possible please to try and determine who is who !!

Bride and groom are Thomas Nation (born 1887) and Gwendoline Mary Daveridge (1897), and her parents James (1869) and Flora (Heaven) Daveridge (1873) are behind them. Gwen’s older sister Ada had a 6 week old baby at the time of the marriage so I’m guessing that’s her sitting down with the baby. Gwen and Ada’s sister Beatrice had died (as had her husband) leaving a 4 year old daughter Phyllis (1916) who i hope is one of the two little girls in front.

One of Thomas’s brothers had daughters born in 1904 (Mary) and 1915 (Beatrice) so i’m hoping Beatrice is the other little girl in front. That leaves Mary (1904) and three other sisters of Gwen (and Ada), Flora (1902), Grace (1904) and Nellie (1906), so all four quite close in age. Does this fit (look likely) for the 2 on the far left and 2 on the right? I’m not convinced about the lady on the left of the back row, next to the bride’s mother as she look a bit old to be one of the 4 i’ve mentioned.

Any help gratefully received, thanks

18
Ireland / Death certificate from 1990
« on: Wednesday 07 June 23 20:43 BST (UK)  »
is it possible to buy a death certificate from 1990? Not having much luck finding out if it's possible :(

Thanks

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