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Topics - Kate-Birchtree

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1
Essex / Mystery Essex town (Packing) on census - probably an error!
« on: Saturday 24 February 24 01:13 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all

I have an 1851 census record for an ancestor (Samuel Smith) whose place of birth was recorded as Essex Packing:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGVC-V1N

Viewing the original image, I really don't feel the word really can be mistaken for anything else - the handwriting does not look ambiguous (unlike many other records!)

From what I'm gradually learning/already know about Essex (as a non-UK researcher), there aren't any towns called Packing. The "closest" names I'm aware of are Bocking and Barking.

Searches online haven't turned up anything remotely related to a place called Packing (except for modern packaging supply stores in Essex ;D)

The person in question was married in Springfield and lived in Ingatestone/Moulsham (Chelmsford area). I haven't any evidence (yet) of him having lived outside of Chelmsford, though it's possible he lived with his adult children in or closer to Leytonstone/West Ham sometime in the 1850s.

I suspect "Packing" is a misrecording of the town, but I can't rule out that there's a more granular place in Essex that's not typically captured in the records.

Does anybody know what this town could be (assuming anything called "Packing" exists!) or what location it could have been misrecorded in lieu of?

Thanks for your help!

2
Kent / HELP! William (Taylor) Smith, born 6 Feb 1854 in Kent - can't find him!
« on: Friday 08 December 23 09:21 GMT (UK)  »
Hi all

I've hit an incredibly frustrating stumbling block, and I'm hoping somebody out there might already have a missing piece of the puzzle (or have an idea about how to find it!)

My great-great grandfather, William Taylor Smith, was (according to Australian records) born in Kent on 6 Feb 1854.

It's uncertain if his name was William with surname Taylor-Smith, or William with middle name Taylor and surname Smith, though the latter seems to be the most likely. (His wife, children and grandchildren had the surname Smith, though one changed it by deed poll to Taylor-Smith as an adult). I do wonder if he might have been born William Smith but added middle name Taylor retrospectively (e.g. late mother's surname).

His father's name was Robert Smith (mother unknown).

His death certificate shows he was born in Kent (which could also encompass somewhere now considered to be greater London?)

An Australian newspaper article from later in his life mentions that he was "late of Newcastle upon Tyne", suggesting that he likely moved there sometime between 1854 and 1863.

He almost certainly emigrated to South Australia (aboard the Orient) in 1863, as a 9-year-old. The original passenger lists for that ship no longer exist, so his arrival is only known from newspaper lists and anecdotal sources when he was alive. There is no clear indication that he emigrated with a parent, and it's possible (though unconfirmed) that he was accompanied by a Mrs Percy/Perry. His future parents-in-law were also on the same ship (Stephen Stickels/Stickells/Stickles and Sarah Noble Maple). They were from Ruckinge.

I've turned my brain inside out searching every obscure variant of names and data combinations across Ancestry, FindMyPast, FreeReg and GRO. I've chased many family leads that have proven to be dead ends.

If I could find a way to search for Williams by specific date of birth (assuming the source of this info is accurate!) then that would help narrow things down somewhat (e.g. on GRO).

Does anybody happen to have this person in their tree, or can anybody help with some advice to untangle this mystery? Thanks in advance!

3
The Common Room / Given name Turberville - what nicknames or variants?
« on: Monday 18 September 23 06:10 BST (UK)  »
I've stumbled across the given name Turberville, and I'm trying to figure out if it has any known variants or nicknames!

Does anybody have real-world or general genealogical experience with this name?!

4
Tipperary / Finns of Tipperary - Bridget, John and Honora (Stuck!)
« on: Monday 11 September 23 02:52 BST (UK)  »
I've reached a point where I need to ask for some help, and I'm hoping someone might be able to help me break down this wall a little...

I'm trying to track down the FINN family, who emigrated from Tipperary at either county level, or possibly town level. They were quite possibly born there, though Ancestry online family tree lore has suggested a possible (unsourced) birthplace of Cork for Bridget...

So far, we know that John & Honora FINN and daughter Bridget FINN emigrated to South Australia aboard the Stamboul in 1858 (see publicly available passenger list: https://www.archives.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/831671/GRG35_48_1_58-1_Stamboul.pdf).

I've tried tracing the family in Ireland, and have so far turned up almost nothing useful or convincing enough to keep following. (I'm pretty new to Irish research, so I realise I may be making errors or missing something obvious...) Unfortunately, Bridget was born (and parents were married) pre-civil registration.

1) I've tried searching the different name/nickname variants for each person, including wildcards and first initials, and Latinised name variants: e.g. Bedelia, Biddy, Brigit, Delia, etc for Bridget; Honora(h), Hanora(h), Nora(h), Norry, Hanna(h), Joanna(h), Jane, etc for Honora. I've also searched under known Finn surname variants. I've also tried searching within Cork, with similarly uncompelling results.

2) The closest match I turned up was for a family from Tipperary (John Finn & Mary Gorman, marr. 1847; daughter Bridget born 1848). I wondered if Honora was a middle name, or an outlier alternative name variant, for Mary. But this family emigrated to Victoria by about 1850 (+/-) and continued living in/having children in Victoria until the late 1800s.

Is there anybody who can help nudge me in the right direction with this one?



See further details about the family below:

Bridget FINN
  • The passenger list gives Bridget an age of 5 at the time of emigration (therefore a year of birth of about 1853). Per later records, it's likely she was born in 1850/1851 at emigration.
  • Australian records have Bridget with a middle name of Ann(e), but there's nothing about this on the passenger list.
  • Bridget was married in 1866 to Joseph Robertson BAMPTON (FindMyPast record for those with a subscription: https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=ANZ%2FAU%2FSA%2FBMD%2FM%2F0000083401%2F1) and her age was recorded as 16 years, with a birth year of 1850. FindAGrave (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/99793835/bridget-ann-bampton) has her birth year as 1851. It does seem unlikely she was married at 13, so the c. 1850 year of birth seems far more plausible!
  • Bridget died in 1883, with an age estimate of 32 (i.e. year of birth 1851), and was buried at Cheltenham Cemetery (likely in the old "Woodville Catholic Cemetery" section. Site now redeveloped.
  • There are only scant references to Bridget (re: her passing) on Trove, and nothing with further details about her life.

John Finn
  • Per the passenger list, John was a labourer, and 43 years old at the time of emigration (giving him a birth year of about 1815). Not sure how accurate this is - there are some strange dates going on with this family!
  • John died by 1898 (Honora was a widow at her death in October 1898).
  • John seems to have fallen off the face of the earth between arriving in SA in 1858 and his wife's death - no death records for SA, including surname variations like FINNIS. I'm currently searching interstate records, in case he went to find work and died there, but nothing definitive has been narrowed down so far.

Honora (Nora[h]) FINN
  • Honora (per passenger list) was about 32 at emigration (birth year of approx. 1826), but her death record from SA Births, Deaths and Marriages (https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=ANZ%2FAU%2FSA%2FBMD%2FD%2F0000541345) has her age at death as 88 years, and her year of birth as 1810! I'd imagine therefore that she and John were married much earlier than Bridget's birth in 1850 (though not necessarily, and of course unless it was a second marriage for one or both parents) and that perhaps they had other children before her.
  • Honora seems to have been known as "Nora(h)". She died in 1898 as a widow (spouse: John Finn) in Queenstown, and was also buried at "Woodville Catholic Cemetery" (site since redeveloped).

5
The Common Room / Issues ordering GRO certificates - anybody else?
« on: Monday 11 September 23 01:53 BST (UK)  »
Is it just me?!

I've tried ordering a digital image from the GRO many times over the past day, but the payments keep failing.

It looks very likely to be a merchant payment processing problem, where each transaction fails due to an immediate "transaction declined" error message.

I've ruled out card issues at my end, have tried multiple browsers and devices, checked cookies, etc (and I've purchased successfully from them only recently).

Is anybody else having this trouble too?

6
Surrey / Marriage of George Bampton & Catherine Robertson (Newington, 1842)
« on: Friday 25 August 23 01:47 BST (UK)  »
I'm having some trouble tracing the parish marriage of George Bampton and Catherine (possibly Catharine) Robertson.

  • According to Ancestry family tree lore, Catherine was born in Berkshire. Later life records (in Australia) show she was born in about 1819/1820.
  • There is an 1841 census record for a Catherine Robertson (aged about 20) in the household of Robert Robertson in Berkshire, which is plausible but not definitive.
  • George is confirmed as being born in Eton, Buckinghamshire.

The only plausible civil marriage registration record for a George Bampton and Catherine Robertson is for Newington, Surrey in 1842. This correlates with the couple's emigration to New Zealand later in the same year (though without the context of a parish record, it's trickier to be sure it's them).

I can't find any trace of a parish marriage record for this couple. I've searched Ancestry, Find My Past, FamilySearch and FreeReg, with no success. I also tried LMA, which I understand is the current custodian of Newington records.

I realise it's possible that they didn't marry in a church at all, but it still seems unusual enough that I want to delve a bit deeper.

I've had trouble locating other Surrey parish records in the past, so I'm unsure whether there are strange coverage gaps involved, or whether I'm just not looking at the right avenues to find them.

Can anybody help me figure this one out? Thank you!

7
Hi everyone

Bit of a mystery here: per censuses, husband appears to be in the local workhouse (married) while wife (also married) and children are living at home.

Google tells me that husbands and wives (and their families) would not enter the workhouse separately: that it was an all-or-nothing package deal (to paraphrase).

However, were there any known exceptions or anomalies with this practice?

My Samuel Smith (a carpenter, possibly also/later a boot/shoemaker, born about 1798 in Essex, place unknown) and wife Sarah Smith (born 1800, Chelmsford) were married in Springfield, 1824 and are recorded on the same census, with their children, in 1841 in Chelmsford.

In 1851, Sarah is recorded with (some) children as "Married" but sans husband:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGVX-WGC

Meanwhile, there is an 1851 census record for a Samuel Smith (house joiner), married, as an inmate at the Chelmsford Union Workhouse: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGVC-V1N

By 1861, it looks as though Sarah was listed as a widowed lodger (should be mother-in-law - recording error?) living with her daughter Mary Thurston nee Smith, son-in-law John Thurston and granddaughter (Alice) Mary Thurston in Leyton:
https://www.ancestry.com.au/sharing/3820819?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a224e31584b4c75553668535934474b5a4d703047446e75487873534379614f773133344e636f5144486542593d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d (apologies if you don't have an Ancestry subscription - I can't find this one on FamilySearch or FreeCen)

I checked for the possibility that Sarah might have remarried, but I imagine the chances of divorcing, remarrying, remarrying with the same surname and having THAT husband absent on census night are just a little slim?! (I couldn't find any correlating remarriage records, anyway...)

If Workhouse Samuel Smith is the same as Sarah's Samuel Smith, then:
  • Is it even remotely plausible that he would be in the workhouse, while she's at home with their children?
  • Are there any repositories online where I might be able to access more details or documents about the Chelmsford Union Workhouse inmates, admissions, etc? I'm in Australia, so I'm limited to what I can access online unfortunately
  • Is it possible that wife Sarah and some of the children might have been in the workhouse with Samuel (between the 1841 and 1851 censuses) but Sarah and children discharged earlier? Was that a 'thing'?

8
London and Middlesex / Emma Groom - Convict in Middlesex c1795 - Brick Wall
« on: Friday 04 August 23 02:18 BST (UK)  »
I'm hunting a very elusive Emma Groom, who was (according to very vague convict records) born around 1795 (possibly March) though I've seen 1794 and 1796 recorded as well. She's noted as being from Middlesex, though this could easily refer to her place of residence and not her actual place of birth.

In 1815 she was tried at the Old Bailey for pickpocketing, but found not guilty. In 1817, she was tried again and this time, sentenced to 7 years' transportation. She was sent to New South Wales on the Friendship and arrived in January 1818. She later moved on to Tasmania, where she died in 1830.

I suspect an alias (due to many exhaustive searches with almost no useful outcomes), but can't be sure.

Prior to her conviction, the only clues I have are that:
  • Her occupation was recorded as a "mantua maker"
  • That she possibly lived, in about 1816 (at the time of her final crime), on Adam-and-Eve Street in what I understand to be the parish of St Marylebone. In her Old Bailey transcript, her victim explains that she asked him to come inside what she claimed to be her home on that street (though it's quite possible it was a fake address). It may still suggest she lived in the general area, if not that street.
  • Her future children (born in Australia) were named Francis Henry Groom and Emma Frances "Fanny" Groom. The 'Francis/Frances' emphasis makes me wonder whether (assuming "Emma and/or Groom" were aliases) her real name was either Frances or Fanny (or if a parent/brother/sister was called Francis/Frances/Fanny. (To confirm: her children took her name in Australia).
  • There are some records for both a Frances and Fanny Groom born around the right time period (c 1795) in Middlesex, but initial checks seem to suggest that those people lived in England past 1818.
  • Her alleged year of birth makes it possible but not wildly likely that she married before her conviction and transportation. There are no mentions of a marriage in any of her convict records.
  • I can't imagine these were her first crimes - I suspect other possible run-ins with the law, but I assume they must be under a different name.

FamilySearch can't/won't show me the majority of the parish register images for St Marylebone (assuming, of course, she was born in that exact parish...)  :'(

I've tried searching National Archives and some occupation/poor law records (or at least those that are available to me or that I know of). I can't turn up anything around Emma or potential parents. I was hoping to find some kind of apprentice record for Emma (being a mantua-maker) but no such luck.

Any help would be so appreciated!

P.S., it looks almost certain that Emma was not (directly) connected with the Groom family of Harefield, Buckinghamshire. (That would have been convenient, because one of them was a Francis Henry Groom...)

9
England / Fathers on parish marriage registers - deceased or alive?
« on: Friday 04 August 23 01:59 BST (UK)  »
Hi all

Apologies if this is an obvious question, but I'm wondering: in the 1800s (particularly the mid-to-late 1800's), would parish marriage registers consistently specify whether a bride or groom's father was deceased or alive at the time of the marriage?

Or is the answer actually that it's just a lucky dip of "whatever the church felt like recording at the time"?  ;D

In case it's useful to know, I'm referring to an ancestor whose marriage occurred at St Giles without Cripplegate in London, but this question is really intended as a broader query about how these records were "typically" handled (if such a thing!)

Context:
I have an ancestor whose name and occupation is recorded on their child's parish marriage record in 1858. I'm trying to sleuth whether they passed away before or after this. Based on the marriage record alone, I initially assumed he was still alive at that stage (as there was another child's marriage record, which occurred about ten years later, specifying the father as "deceased").

However, I'm not so sure now - this record is possibly at odds with other records I've found, swaying me to wonder whether he passed away before 1858 after all.

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