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Messages - lonetrooper

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19
Occupation Interests / Re: Weaving and Spinning Mills
« on: Sunday 18 May 14 10:49 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for that Youngtug

What an excellent website for all things weaving.

I especially like the 17th century weaving poem with links from each weaving terms.

http://trowbridgemuseum.co.uk/cloth-making-2/



20
Occupation Interests / The Master and his Apprentice
« on: Sunday 18 May 14 01:25 BST (UK)  »
Does anyone know what entitled someone to be considered a Master and by what authority the terms of apprenticeship were upheld?

I have recently found apprenticeship documents for several ancestors that mastered a variety of trades including wooler-weaving, blacksmiths, tailors and boot/shoe makers.  Each document was almost identical in regard to terms and conditions.

The investitures seem to be legal documents and I wondered if it was something drawn up by a solicitor or some other body such as a Worshipful company? This is because of the horrific fact that fathers could impose this document upon their own sons if they were Masters in any particular art.
I also wondered how these terms were enforced and what the penalty of any breech was most likely to be.

Here is a word for word copy of an indenture for a 7 year apprenticeship. I have seen a few of these now for various trades, such as blacksmith and shoemaker. All of the terms and conditions are more or less identical.  The length of apprenticeship seems to be 7 years. The only difference seems to be how much has to be paid to a master.

London England Freedom of the City Admission Papers

This Indenture witnesseth that, ….(Name)….son of …(Name of father)…..of …(Address)… in the County of….. the sum of ten pounds being paid or secured to the Master, as the consideration for taking the said apprentice, doth put himself Apprentice to… (Name)… [Richard Lambert Rose] Citizen and MERCHANT TAYLOR of London, to learn his Art, and with him (after the manner of an Apprentice) to serve from the Date hereof until the full End and Term of ….seven…Years, from thence next following to be fully complete and ended; During which Term, the said Apprentice his said Master faithfully shall serve:

•   His Secrets keep;
•   His lawful Commandments everywhere gladly do.
•   He shall do no Damage to his said Master, nor see it to be done of others, but that he, to his Power, shall let, or forthwith give warning to his said Master of the same.
•   He shall not waste the goods of his said Master, nor lend them unlawfully to any.
•   He shall not commit fornication, nor contract matrimony within the said Term.
•   He shall not play at cards, dice, tables, or any other unlawful games, whereby his said Master may have any loss.
•   With his own goods or others, during the said term, without license from his said Master, he shall neither buy nor sell.
•   He shall not haunt taverns or play-houses, nor absent himself from his said Master’s service, day nor night, unlawfully;
•   but in all things, he said Apprentice, he shall behave himself towards his said Master, and all his during the said Term.

And the said Master, his said Apprentice in the same Art which he useth, by the best means that he can, shall teach and instruct, or cause to be taught and instructed, finding unto his said Apprentice, meat, drink, apparel, lodging and all other necessaries, according to the custom of the City of London, during the said Term. And for the true performance of all and every, the said Covenants and Agreements, either of the said Parties bind themselves unto the other by these Presents.

IN WITNESS whereof, the Parties above named to these Indentures interchangeably have put their Hands and Seals the …day..of ..month.. in the …number of years…Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lady VICTORIA, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, and so forth and in the Year of Our Lord, One Thousand Eight Hundred and ….

Witness: The master’s signature and clerk’s signature
.

Stamped and sealed.

21
Occupation Interests / Re: Weaving and Spinning Mills
« on: Sunday 18 May 14 01:03 BST (UK)  »
Oh my goodness!

Thanks for that Rena,

Confess I'd need more that 9 minutes to take that in. It certainly makes sense of the need for 7 years training!

My ancestors were Trowbridge, not Tewksbury, sorry. The whole village seemed to be dedicated to wooler-weaving but in 1750, it must have been more like the film you posted.

Some of the old looms were astonishing contraptions. I can't find the link now but some of them were like a hut size timer frame and the weaver sat inside it and kind of rode it like a bicycle and played it like an organ.

You are right about the whole family being involved. On each census, almost every neighbour is a  weaver as well.

Do you think these would be more the type of loom for a small company at that time?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/JacquardLoomsSAFALodzPoland.jpg/412px-JacquardLoomsSAFALodzPoland.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/PSM_V39_D325_Carpet_loom_with_jacquard

22
Occupation Interests / Re: Shoemakers, Bootmakers, Saddler and Harness Makers
« on: Sunday 18 May 14 00:05 BST (UK)  »
Yes indeed!

No haunting of taverns for 7 years!!

 :'(

23
Occupation Interests / Re: Weaving and Spinning Mills
« on: Saturday 17 May 14 23:55 BST (UK)  »
I have 3 generations of Tewksbury wooler-weavers from 1750 and also wonder what that entailed; whether this was a specific role or a general title.

To my surprise, I found a document for my ancestor entitled: UK Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' indentures  - 1785 where he is signed up for 7 years and had to pay a master weaver £33 and 17 shillings; it wasn't clear whether this was the full amount. The terms of apprenticeship seem to be identical across the arts and crafts as follows:

Term of ….seven…Years, from thence next following to be fully complete and ended.
During which Term, the said Apprentice his said Master faithfully shall serve:

•   His Secrets keep;
•   His lawful Commandments everywhere gladly do.
•   He shall do no Damage to his said Master, nor see it to be done of others, but that he, to his Power, shall let, or forthwith give warning to his said Master of the same.
•   He shall not waste the goods of his said Master, nor lend them unlawfully to any.
•   He shall not commit fornication, nor contract matrimony within the said Term.
•   He shall not play at cards, dice, tables, or any other unlawful games, whereby his said Master may have any loss.
•   With his own goods or others, during the said term, without license from his said Master, he shall neither buy nor sell.
•   He shall not haunt taverns or play-houses, nor absent himself from his said Master’s service, day nor night, unlawfully;
•   but in all things, he said Apprentice, he shall behave himself towards his said Master, and all his during the said Term.

And the said Master, his said Apprentice in the same Art which he useth, by the best means that he can, shall teach and instruct, or cause to be taught and instructed, finding unto his said Apprentice, meat, drink, apparel, lodging and all other necessaries, according to the custom of the City of London, during the said Term. And for the true performance of all and every, the said Covenants and Agreements, either of the said Parties bind themselves unto the other by these Presents.

This seems to be the standard apprenticeship in all trades and crafts including an agreement to celibacy for a term of 7 years.

I have found pictures of all manner of antiquated looms and a few interesting pictures on local websites but this was a village industry and must have involved the entire process from sheep to shop. 

The following film is quite a bit later than my ancestors and am not sure to what degree this is representative of wool weaving on the whole but it is a wonderful 14 minute  insight into 1940's Wool weaving from beginning to end and they say it hasn't changed much for centuries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xieaw05jSc8




24
Occupation Interests / Re: Shoemakers, Bootmakers, Saddler and Harness Makers
« on: Saturday 17 May 14 23:00 BST (UK)  »
Apprenticeships: Awesome terms and conditions

Here is a word for word copy of an indenture for a 7 year apprenticeship. I have seen a few of these now for various trades, such as blacksmith and shoemaker. All of the terms and conditions are more or less identical.  The length of apprenticeship seems to be 7 years. The only difference seems to be how much has to be paid to a master.

[
b]London England Freedom of the City Admission Papers
[/b]

This Indenture witnesseth that, ….(Name)….son of …(Name of father)…..of …(Address)… in the County of….. the sum of ten pounds being paid or secured to the Master, as the consideration for taking the said apprentice, doth put himself Apprentice to… (Name)… Citizen and MERCHANT TAYLOR of London, to learn his Art, and with him (after the manner of an Apprentice) to serve from the Date hereof until the full End and Term of ….seven…Years, from thence next following to be fully complete and ended.
During which Term, the said Apprentice his said Master faithfully shall serve:

•   His Secrets keep;
•   His lawful Commandments everywhere gladly do.
•   He shall do no Damage to his said Master, nor see it to be done of others, but that he, to his Power, shall let, or forthwith give warning to his said Master of the same.
•   He shall not waste the goods of his said Master, nor lend them unlawfully to any.
•   He shall not commit fornication, nor contract matrimony within the said Term.
•   He shall not play at cards, dice, tables, or any other unlawful games, whereby his said Master may have any loss.
•   With his own goods or others, during the said term, without license from his said Master, he shall neither buy nor sell.
•   He shall not haunt taverns or play-houses, nor absent himself from his said Master’s service, day nor night, unlawfully;
•   but in all things, he said Apprentice, he shall behave himself towards his said Master, and all his during the said Term.

And the said Master, his said Apprentice in the same Art which he useth, by the best means that he can, shall teach and instruct, or cause to be taught and instructed, finding unto his said Apprentice, meat, drink, apparel, lodging and all other necessaries, according to the custom of the City of London, during the said Term. And for the true performance of all and every, the said Covenants and Agreements, either of the said Parties bind themselves unto the other by these Presents.

IN WITNESS whereof, the Parties above named to these Indentures interchangeably have put their Hands and Seals the …day..of ..month.. in the …number of years…Year of the Reign of our Sovereign Lady VICTORIA, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen, and so forth and in the Year of Our Lord, One Thousand Eight Hundred and ….

Witness: The master’s signature and clerk’s signature.
Stamped and sealed.

 :-\

Can’t imagine anyone willing to sign up for that these days! But I like that they took the artistry so seriously and that it was recognised as having such value, in and of itself.

Here too is a link where you can access an index of 108 various worshipful companies.
http://www.merchant-taylors.co.uk/

25
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Recycling BMD Certificates
« on: Saturday 26 April 14 18:47 BST (UK)  »
Thank you darling lovely Green recycling peoples, I shall follow your directions forthwith xxxx

26
Family History Beginners Board / Recycling BMD Certificates
« on: Saturday 26 April 14 00:36 BST (UK)  »
Ever ordered the wrong B, M or D certificate?

It seems such a waste to bin them.

Is there a way or place to recycle or donate them to the right person such as a site where you can post them up for free?



27
Occupation Interests / Re: Shoemakers, Bootmakers, Saddler and Harness Makers
« on: Thursday 24 April 14 20:28 BST (UK)  »
Master Hatter; what a wonderful title.

Have you seen the apprenticeship documents? They are awesome terms and conditions. Not allowed to show you a real one re: copyright and can't quickly find a sample but well worth looking at if you can. Maybe the  Worshipful Company of Hatters will let you see one; you never know, the Queen of hearts herself, may oblige :)

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