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I agree with you Linda, the signatures are very much alike.
We need someone who can superimpose them.

Thank you Mckha489...what a brilliant idea.

Is there anyone out there that is able to do that?

I'd say that there are distinct differences between the two Alfred part of the signatures.

Jones,  not so much, but I think the slant is different.

Ah interesting thanks. My DNA match with a mother & son on MH...we share 227 & 92 cms and they also match my paternal late uncle & 1st cousin once removed. They are descended from Albert David Jones’ via his daughter Rebecca. Which is why I think the Alfred David Jones & Alfred Jones are one and the same....complicated.

Having been trying to knock down my Jones brick wall for some years, a recent close DNA match on MH with a mother & son has led me to discover that my great grandfather was a bigamist. He married my great grandmother, Eliza Sullivan in 1889 in Stepney, Middlesex (stated father's name as Henry) then married Annie Jones (think the name is a coincidence rather than him marrying a relative) in 1895 stating he was a bachelor and father's name as Alfred. His signature on each record looks identical, however on the second ‘marriage’ he calls himself, Alfred David Jones.

A couple of things I noticed and I wondered what other rootschatters may think.

Alfred was a dock labourer and lived in Whitechapel at the time of his first marriage aged 20.  He signed his name on the marriage record which I thought unusual for that period of time that someone working as a dock labourer would have been able to sign his name.

One of the witnesses to his marriage to my great grandmother was a Rebecca Turner.  A widow, by the name of Rebecca Jones married a Joseph Turner in 1887 in Bethnal Green – her father was a William Webb.  I thought Rebecca may be Alfred’s mother but unfortunately, I’ve not been able to find a birth on the GRO website with mother’s maiden name of Webb. On the 1911 Census he states he was born in St. George’s in the East.  I’ve searched other areas in the vicinity of St. Georges and also looked at dates either side of 1869 without success. I did order one cert that had no mother’s maiden name recorded (as I thought he may have been illegitimate) but it wasn’t the correct one.

Did Alfred lie about his age, where he was born, his father's name as well as his matrimonial status?  Maybe I’ll never know…..but I will keep looking!

My grandmother, Alfred's daughter spent the majority of her childhood in and out of the workhouse with her mother and half siblings. In those days did the authorities try to trace fathers of abandoned children?

Any thoughts or comments welcome?

Linda

Hi Linda,
It was great to hear from you. Second cousin, aye. May I ask who your mother/grandmother were? For Thomas Henry, I have down two sisters - Cicely (I love that name!) and Agnes Elizabeth. My mum used to tell me that her mum, Mary (who married Thomas H. Haslam) used to shop in Chapel Street market, where, when seeing her mother-in-law, Louisa, she would duck down behind a stall!! Louisa apparently didn't approve of my nan marrying her son. She wasn't good enough!! I do have a photo of Thomas Henry Haslam, my great grandad with his family, if you would like a copy.
Kind regards,
Jan

Hi Jan

It was great to hear from you too.  After I posted my reply I thought...I forgot to mention who my grandmother was - she was Cecilia (Ciss) Maud Haslam (1901-1988). She married Arthur Flint - my mother was Florence Flint.

Yes, remember Chapel St market well. Louisa’s attitude surprises me as I didn’t think people from the East End thought in that way! I have a picture of Louisa with my nan & mum....must admit she does look scary! I would love to see any pictures you have of our family. I can send you a private message with my email address and we can swap stories & pictures but I think you have to have posted 3 times to access the PM system.

Best wishes

Linda

Hi I have come to a complete brick wall concerning my 2xgt nan MARY NOLAN. All I know is that from the census she was born abt 1852 in Tipperary Ireland. She then came over to England. When no-one knows. No-one in the family knows if she was married to my 2xgt grandad HENRY CASH born 1885 Whitechapel died 1918 Bethnal Green. They had several children. Have not been able to find a birth or death for her. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Teresa

Hi Teresa

Its your cousin Linda here. Hope you’re well.

Have you seen my post on the London & Middlesex board regarding a 1914 workhouse record I found for our ancestor Henry Cash. 

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=809400.0

The record states that wife Mary was in an inebriate home. I received some very useful replies to my post but will need to plan a visit to the Salvation Army Heritage Centre at some point......hopefully one day we’ll find out what happened to our ancestor Mary!

Linda