RootsChat.Com

Yes, you are probably right about the non-surviving birth record, but I note that the 1841 census record also said that David was 50 years old and his wife 45.

Early Census records are not always 100% reliable.

I'll probably continue along the Fortingall path until a 1789 Fife born David Mclean turns up.

Still a work in progress but thank you very much for your help - if you have any more thoughts and info. please let me know.

best regards

Hi Fiona,

I know your post was some time ago but did you ever find out any further details on David Mclean in Fife?

Best regards

Hi Robert,

Thank you for your comments & your observation about Greenstonhill, which differs ever so slightly from the 'Greenstone Hill' that is written in other versions of the 1503 document, this is a very good point!

I think that that is one good example of how a story can evolve and change incrementally as it is passed on from person to person, also perhaps with the language being modernised as it is passed down from generation to generation.

Example:
The word 'Tocsin', as used in the document (Tocsin originated from France in the 1580s) is not one that the Brothers could have used, the likely old Scots terminology would have been 'put to the horn':

ref.  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/put_to_the_horn
Verb - Put to the horn (Scotland, transitive, law, historical) To outlaw (a person) by three blasts of the horn at the Cross of Edinburgh.

Similarly, I'm pretty sure that in the 1500s, a desperate bunch of Scottish outlaws would not have used such flowery phraseology as:

"We took shelter under the shadow of the Ochil Hills in a lonely valley on the River Devon.....
..under the ope of the Ochils, and wish the name of Drysdale to flourish in the lonely valley"

Scenario - The hypothetical life of the story (based on the text printed in the Dunfermline press):

Initially, the 1503 story would have been known to the 3 Douglas Brothers and, if recorded by one of them, would have been written down in the old scots language of that time (see Johnston of Greenhill image in post above for an example of old scots language) alternatively the story could have been passed on verbally:

In 1620 it is said that Simon Drysdale of Dollar was the first to copy the story
Then Robert Drysdale of Tillicoultry copied it in 1708
Then John Drysdale of Dunfermline copied it in 1835
Then James Drysdale of Dunfermline copied it in 1838
Then John Drysdale of Montrose copied it in 1841
Then George Drysdale of Aberdeen copied it in 1845
and finally David Drysdale of Glasgow copied it in 1857

As can be seen from the above, the document/story has gone through a sufficient number of stages, in its' 5 century life, for it to have had the possibility of changing & evolving significantly from its original form!

Regards

Hi Robert,

I noted your earlier posts on this with interest and have checked out the maps. It would seem that many years ago, some Scottish Drysdale, aware of the 1503 story, was involved in the planning and naming of the roads in those Johannesburg suburbs - I also noted Douglas road, Drysdale road and Douglas crescent!

With regard to Brushwood Haugh - there is actually a Scottish equivalent in the Dryfesdale area and there is also a mill there. The Mill lies on the Water of Milk river which forms the parish boundary between Dryfesdale and Tundergarth. The Johnstones owned lands in this area (see map below) A Scottish word for Brushwood is Scrogg and Haugh is just an area of low lying land next to a river. The Mill is called Scrogg mill  - see images below:



There was also a Johnstone of Greenhill (not Greenstone Hill) not too far from this mill (about 5 miles away) around that time, who had lived in that area for a long time - see image & reference below:




Regards



Reference - THE ANNANDALE FAMILY BOOK OF THE JOHNSTONES - EARLS AND MARQUISES OF ANNANDALE BY SIR WILLIAM FRASER Vol 1 1894