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Messages - Graye

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28
Roxburghshire / Browns in Roberton and Hawick
« on: Thursday 25 January 18 18:31 GMT (UK)  »
My grandfather's family came from the Hawick area but moved to Birmingham for work. My great grandmother was Elspeth Bell Brown (nee Telfer) who died in Birmingham in 1899.  Her husband was Walter Brown (1859 - 1928), an artist and also Master painter and decorator.  I have traced information concerning Elspeth but I'm drawing a blank to a large extent with Walter. He had a sister, Mary who married a Thomas Michie, also from Hawick.  They moved to Birmingham after the death of Elspeth to care for Walter's children.  His father was Michael Brown, born in Roberton around 1836.  By 1841 I believe Michael was probably an orphan and living with a relative, Agnes Balmar (nee Brown) with his siblings. He spent three years in the army and he later married Jane Dickson, also in Hawick on 28/1/1859. I can find nothing to tell me who his parents were, his date of death, or how he was related to Agnes.

I've looked on an interesting site about the Borders area but can find no mention of Brown in Roberton.  I will be visiting Melrose shortly, which I understand is not far away.  Can anyone suggest somewhere where I might be able to search parish records etc please?  Also, does anyone already hold any information on "my" Browns please?

29
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: I need someone who likes a challenge!
« on: Friday 08 December 17 18:04 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for that input.  I must admit it's the X chromosome which is confusing me.  Obviously our connection is via the Smith family somewhere.  As I see it, the ONLY other option (and one which would work through with the X chromosome chain) is my father's mother's mother.  She was illegitimate so I have no idea of her ancestry, although she lived in a town some distance away.  She seems to have made up a father's name for her marriage certificate - her mother appears never to have married and kept the same name throughout.

I'm sure I read somewhere it's possible to approach an expert to analyse your DNA results and draw conclusions.  Does anyone have info on that please?

30
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / I need someone who likes a challenge!
« on: Monday 04 December 17 15:44 GMT (UK)  »
I have been looking at my family tree for some years and have recently been thrown a total curve ball in that the three closest relatives showing via DNA testing have no connection with my known tree at all.
 
They are all female and I’ll call us Jane, Evelyn, Kylie, and Penny. I’ll be Jane. The other three all have the same line in their tree, I’ll call that Smith.  Edwin Smith is in all their trees, for Kylie he is her 4 x great-grandfather.  For Evelyn & Penny he is their 3 x great-grandfather.  He had eleven children and each of these three come down from a different child.  So I’m thinking I have to be a descendant of one of the other eight, and probably a male (see later).
 
Using all the other DNA connections I have, I’ve managed to exclude quite a few of my other lines.  In fact I’m now JUST left with my father’s line.  From a lot of questioning of old family members I think the “culprit” is another of those children who seems to have had an ongoing affair with my late grandmother.  I'm not 100% sure it was the one I have my eye on but he's the prime suspect.  I’ll call him Edgar Smith.  They lived directly across the road from each other.  As my father and his older brother were as alike as twins I’m imagining it involves him too, and his daughter is also taking the test to see if she fits in the puzzle too. I’ve been unable to trace any other children Edgar had.  There was a son killed in WW1 and a daughter whose line seems to have disappeared after marrying and having one daughter.  So there is not really anyone there to help.

I have done a One to One compare via Gedmatch.  On the charts below the first figure is the actual amount of DNA match, then the longest DNA thread in that match, then the generational difference, then the X specifies X DNA or not.  Only Evelyn has the X DNA link with me, although I have no idea why at the moment.

This is my DNA connection to Evelyn, whose ancestor is a daughter of Edwin
148.6   32.1   3.3       X   22.2   7.9

To Penny it is this, her ancestor is a son to Edwin
146.6   37.6   3.3       X   0   0

And to Kylie it is this, her link is also a son of Edwin's
70.6   21.5   3.8       X   0   0

Evelyn and Penny are the same generation, Kylie is another generation away and I am in fact the closest to Edwin if my reasoning is correct.

Just as another point, if I compare us all with each other, there does not seem to be any DNA link from Evelyn to Kylie and I just can’t see how that can be the case when we can see the links via the trees and we are all closely linked otherwise.  If Edgar (or any of the other sons) is my grandfather (making Edwin my great-grandfather) then obviously I’m nearer to him in relationship terms than any of the other three.

Can anyone think of any other tests I can try to see if I can prove my point that this has to be my ancestor please?   Or come up with other theories?  I'm sure there are people out there who are more au fait with this than me!

31
Worcestershire Lookup Requests / Re: Bonham
« on: Tuesday 14 November 17 21:49 GMT (UK)  »
The Led Zeppelin John Bonham was related to my cousin's husband.  His name Keith Bonham.  Are you able to send private messages here?  If so and you message me I can run through the connection...  Oddly enough I remember him and his brother Michael (both since died) when I was much younger, growing up in Redditch.

32
Worcestershire / Re: Apperleys of Pershore
« on: Tuesday 14 November 17 19:52 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for your ideas on this. 

I may have had a major breakthrough as it seems an older cousin if mine remembers family gossip that one of our ancestors had a relationship with a Mr Appleby (near enough to Apperley I imagine) who lived in Bromsgrove Road in Redditch.  This was just after the time of the last available census and I can't see any useful directories online at the moment to help me identify him.  Can anyone tell me how I can look at the Electoral Roll for the periods between 1915 and 1925 please?  I'm not sure how I can go about this or what might be available...

33
Worcestershire / Re: Apperleys of Pershore
« on: Monday 30 October 17 23:42 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you both for that information.  I now have even more siblings to look at!  And that research into the family name looks very interesting too.  I always come away with helpful information whenever I come on this site and I do appreciate it.

34
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Re: Help with a very strange DNA situation
« on: Monday 30 October 17 08:57 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for those ideas.  All four of us show as linked (3rd/4th cousins) via Ancestry and we also match via Gedmatch. The family which seems to connect us is from a geographical area to which we can all link closely. Unfortunately for me that means most of my family anyway so I can glean nothing from that!  Because there are more confirmed DNA links to other parts of my tree I do have a fair idea that I need to be looking at my father's line though.  Based on their trees and an excel spreadsheet to show the various generations it seems I should share a great grandparent with three of them (we all have more or less the same generation gap of 3.3) and slightly more distant with the much younger fourth member, who is presumably the daughter of a closer link.

As you say, the most confusing part is the X Chromosome match/mismatch. I don't fully understand the possibilities on that and it could be an error too.  The most likely candidate at the moment is my great grandmother who was illegitimate. She appears to have invented a father for her marriage certificate and I can't find any evidence he existed or that her mother used anything but her original maiden name. I'm thinking she could be a 12th half-sibling, although the dates (the father I have in mind would have been very young) and her location (7 miles from the others) makes it improbable. I think I need to encourage one of my paternal cousins to take a test!

Thanks for the input.

35
Worcestershire / Apperleys of Pershore
« on: Sunday 29 October 17 16:46 GMT (UK)  »
Has anyone done any in depth research into this family please?  I'm really looking at Edwin Apperley born 1838 in Pershore, died 1900 in Bromsgrove.  He had 11 children and I believe I have a family link with one of them (this has come up through DNA testing and I don't have a link in my tree based just on BCs and records etc).  Four of us have DNA links to various of the 11 and of course we then have common DNA links to Edwin but I'm unable to see which of the 11 is my ancestor.  The others can find their links via records so I'm assuming there is some sort of illegitimacy or informal adoption which just doesn't show in my own tree. I think any research will really be for background info as I need more descendants of the siblings to actually do DNA tests to find which one I should be looking at but I'm still very interested in anything I can find!

36
Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing / Help with a very strange DNA situation
« on: Sunday 29 October 17 16:37 GMT (UK)  »
Perhaps this isn't as strange as it first seems to me but I'm at a loss knowing where to go.  I did a DNA test which threw up various interesting links, confirmed various family tree lines and found some "long lost" and totally unknown distant cousins. 

Unfortunately what it also threw up was close DNA links with three ladies who just don't have anything in common with my tree!  Through a bit of in depth research we've established they all have a link to a particular family.  I have none from what I can see and can only surmise an affair or an informal adoption.  The three people concerned are linked via various of 11 siblings, which makes it even harder for me to see where our link is. We are all around 3.3 generations apart, although we are quite different in age.  The latest person to come up with their info has a link via X chromosomes to me whereas the other two don't. I can't decide what this is telling me. I would love to get to the bottom of this but I'm not sure I know how to use the information I have.  Can anyone come up with suggestions please?

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