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Messages - yelkcub

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685
New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Harold and Ethel Jay - Otago
« on: Tuesday 26 August 08 09:32 BST (UK)  »
HUGE thanks to those who replied ... Althea, Christine. Zephyr ... These Jays (Ethel and James Harold) are the very people I was looking for, and your help has enabled us to put in place an important piece in our family puzzle. No more chinese whispers!
Ian

686
New Zealand Completed Requests / Re: Harold and Ethel Jay - Otago
« on: Monday 25 August 08 13:32 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks for the links - certainly gives me somewhere to start. This search is based on a 'chinese whispers' type of family record: "Ethel married Harold Jay Otago and lived in New Zealand" ... my tentative interpretation being that Otago was where the couple lived in NZ

687
New Zealand Completed Requests / Harold and Ethel Jay - Otago
« on: Monday 25 August 08 09:11 BST (UK)  »
I wonder if any NZ genealogist has ever come across Harold Jay who, we think, lived in Otago. The period concerned would be the 1930s and 40s. I am researching Harold's wife's family: she was born Ethel Page in 1911, the daughter of Walter and Alice Page.
With thanks for any help received
Ian

688
Lancashire / Re: 'a Musden chair'
« on: Friday 22 August 08 18:46 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for that - I'll have a look at Haslingden and the others you suggest. I already searched Newchurch in Rossendale, which seemed a likely contender. I get conflicting reports about when St Bartholomew's in Whitworth began christenings, and there seems to have been a (C of E) chapel at Whitworth quite early. Some of the early Hoyles were, in fact, nonconformists: some quakers and presbyterians, but the main Harsenden branch seem to have used Cof E churches for their hatchings, matchings, dispatchings. Another reason for remaining interested in the transposed surnames theory is that other Hoyles intermarried with Holdens ... but, then, they are both quite common names in that area.
Ian

689
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Bishops transcripts, Rochdale, please
« on: Friday 22 August 08 08:59 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your reply, Carole. The Lancs Online Parish Clerk site has been a wonderful resource in my Hoyle research: the name Hoyle features prominently in St Chad's records. I suppose it's a bit of a long shot to hope that the Bishop's Transcript might record the 1730 Hoyle/ Holden marriage with the surnames reversed to John Hoyle/ Elin Holden ... but you never know. I'm told that mistakes made in the parish register were sometimes rectified in the transcript.
There is certainly no record of an Elin Hoyle among the St Chad baptisms in the right period. The only Elin Hoyle I could find was baptised in 1685.
My ancestor, the Elin mentioned in John Hoyles will of 1761 (proved after his death in 1774), is recorded as a burial 17 Jan 1786.
Of course the 'Elin Hoyle' in the 1730 record could have come from another parish, though when that was the case the St Chad PR tends to mention it (eg 'of Bury parish')
The search continues - but thanks again for your input
Ian

690
Lancashire / Re: 'a Musden chair'
« on: Thursday 21 August 08 21:12 BST (UK)  »
I have so far been unsuccessful in finding details of the marriage of John Hoyle and Ellin. I have posted a lookup request in the Lancashire section of Rootschat for someone who has access to check the bishop's transcript of St Chad's register: my only theory at present is that a mistake may have been made in which the bride and groom's surnames were transposed. Of course, the simpler explanation might be that the couple married elsewhere. I wonder where Musden folk generally married ...
Best wishes IAN

691
Lancashire / Re: 'a Musden chair'
« on: Thursday 21 August 08 16:41 BST (UK)  »
Thanks for your reply, Aulus. You're right - same Ian, same chair. I follow your reasoning, but in his will John Hoyle mentions specific items only in the case of his wife, Ellen: 'one Chist called her Chist a desk a trunk with a lock on it a Musden chair and Seven books which she doth choose'. She also received a house to live in for the remainder of her life and fifteen shillings a year.
I rather think that the chair must have been a treasured possession in the small Lancashire farmhouse where the Hoyles lived. What I would like to find is a connection between the Hoyles of Harsenden and Musden, only a few miles north over the moors.
Ian

692
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Bishops transcripts, Rochdale, please
« on: Thursday 21 August 08 11:54 BST (UK)  »
If anyone has access to the Bishops transcript of St Chad's, Rochdale or the church at Whitworth (or indeed neighbouring parishes), I would be grateful if a detail could be checked. I have the will of an ancestor, John Hoyle, who died in 1774, in which he refers to his wife as Ellin. I have been unable to find a marriage between a John Hoyle and an Ellin in the right span of years, despite the fact that most Hoyle marriages took place at St Chad's or St Bartholomew's, Whitworth. ST Chad's PR records the burial of John Hoyle's wife, Ellin ('Ellen') 17 Jan 1786
I even made a trip earlier this year to the Touchstone Centre in Rochdale, and looked at the microfilm copies of the parish register. The film containing the records for the 1700s is virtually illegible in many places.

I am interested in one record - the marriage (28 Dec 1730) of Ellin Hoyle and John Holden ... the only John/Ellin marriage in the right timeframe. I wonder whether it is possible that, in error, the surnames were transposed. If that is the case, the correct surnames just might be entered in the transcript.
I should be most grateful for any help in this matter

Ian in Cornwall

693
Lancashire / 'a Musden chair'
« on: Thursday 21 August 08 11:43 BST (UK)  »
In the will of an ancestor who died 1774, one of the individual items bequeathed to the deceased's wife was 'a Musden chair' which intrigues me. Was it a chair made in Musden, or (more likely) was it an heirloom deriving from a family member who came from Musden -  Musden, as far as I can gather, is or was in the Rossendale area. The person making the will was John Hoyle, a farmer of Harsenden (various spellings), close to Whitworth, Rochdale. His wife is referred to in the will as Ellin. Perhaps it was Ellin who came from Musden. Any thoughts on 'a Musden chair' gratefully considered!
Ian in Cornwall

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