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Messages - MercianSte

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10
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Tuesday 17 January 17 11:45 GMT (UK)  »
I have been looking into this overnight, it looks like service records for soldiers who died during service were not retained, it was only the records that were passed onto the pensions department that have survived. This might be why I cannot locate Robert Tatham's records on FindMyPast, or of course they could be missing for another reason.


I am quite happy that my Robert did sign up for the 39th Foot and I am pretty certain that he is the same person as the Robert Fatham who died 1876, it is a shame I cannot guarantee it 100%. The best I can I think would be to look through the Muster Rolls and see if there is a note stating Robert died (and I wonder if there would be a detailed note of where he signed up?).


Thank you all for your help. I would not have (possibly) found Robert if I was looking on my own!





11
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Monday 16 January 17 13:00 GMT (UK)  »
Thanks for the info Jomot. I did not know about the 7 day trial, I have just signed up and had a look. It is a list of soldiers who's balances are unclaimed (title of the page is Soldiers' Balances Unclaimed - just in case the way I have written it changes it's meaning). It shows £11 14s 11d unclaimed by Robert. I would imagine this was the amount unclaimed when he died and as he had no next of kin (wife etc) in India it remained unclaimed, although if anybody thinks otherwise please let me know.

12
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Monday 16 January 17 08:54 GMT (UK)  »
Ancestry has Private Robert Tatham of 39 Foot on the 1882 Army List, although unfortunately it is only viewable via Fold3, which is a separate/additional subscription.


Thanks for having a look for me Jomot. Does the record index page actually say he is in the 39th Foot? The reason I ask is because I have been having at look at the possibility Robert died in India and found a record on FindMyPast's British India Death and Burial records for a Robert Fatham, died 12 December 1876, aged 34 who was a Private in HMS 39th Regt. Having looked again at the earlier army records there is seems to be no Robert Fatham in the army so if you had not found the above record I would have already added this to my tree as my Robert.

13
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Sunday 15 January 17 20:48 GMT (UK)  »
There is a Robert Tatham on findmypast in the Military records. 

1861 service number 420, 39th Foot (Dorsetshires) stationed at Templemore.

1871 Robert Tatum, service number 420, 39th Foot (East Middlesex), Bandsman, stationed Ferozepore, India

No other information given unfortunately. 

The National Archives reference for 1871 is WO 12/5304 and for 1861 is WO12 / 5294.  I don't know if there would be any more details on the records at Kew

Hope this helps
Sandra

 I just wanted to thank you once again Sandra, I think you have found my Robert. I have been searching on Find My Past, I cannot see this Robert's service records but I looked at the service numbers around him, No. 417 William James Griffice was enlisted at Walsall on 3 August 1860, No. 422 Joseph Weetman enlisted at Walsall on 28 August 1860 so I would think that as Robert's number is 420 he would also have signed up at Walsall in August 1860, which is exactly where I would have expected Robert to have been! It is just a shame I cannot find out what happens to him after 1871 but at least I now have a lead!
 

14
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Friday 13 January 17 20:09 GMT (UK)  »
There's another passenger list entry 20 Dec 1902 - Southampton to S Africa.


Thanks for looking for me Milliepede, I think without knowing his first name and age it would be hard to say if this is my Robert. It is something to keep in mind though. Thank you for let me know about hard it is to research in South Africa as well.


There is a Robert Tatham on findmypast in the Military records.


Now that is something I did not think about, he could have been in the army or even the navy. Surely the gentleman you found would have had some sort of army service records, I will have to try a couple of different spellings for his name on find my past to see if I can see anything (and hopefully he is a Tatham and not a Tatum). Thank you Sandra for bring that to me attention.

15
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Friday 13 January 17 12:33 GMT (UK)  »
Strange he calls himself a widower on 1851 and 1861 if he is still living with his wife on and off!


By 1851 I think their marriage was all but at an end. I have no evidence that Ellen went back to James after she left him (the 2 week spell mentioned above). If this was because she had just found out she was pregnant than that would be late 1848/early 1849. The outcome of the trial in 1852 is that James would pay for the upkeep of the two children (even though evidence was given that one was not his), but he refused to pay for Ellen, so he probably considered himself as good as a widower by 1851, and of course he was a widower in 1861 as Ellen died 1857.

16
England / Re: Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Friday 13 January 17 11:45 GMT (UK)  »
 
So - have I got this right - James came back from US sometime after 1842 and found his wife with another man. He took the children including the baby/child Robert who he knew nothing of before he went.
 

 Yep, that is pretty much the long and short of it. When James came back from the US (he was there around 6/7 years) he managed to track his wife down to Stourport. Ellen went back to him but due to constant threats made towards herself and Rosannah she left with her daughter and went back to James Griffiths, who then lost his job so Ellen went back to James Tatham only to leave him after around 2 weeks seemingly to live on her own in Bewdley. I know all this from a newspaper entry in 1852 (I think - I don't have the actual newspaper entry to hand), Ellen tried to take relief from the parish of Bewdley but they convinced her to take James Tatham to court to try and get him to pay for her and her two children (Louisa is not mentioned anywhere else in the article, I am guessing the reason Ellen left after 2 weeks was that she found out she was pregnant with James Griffiths child and though that James Tatham would not take to kindly to it).

 
Not much to offer but there is a R Tatham travelling from S Africa to England in 1911.  Unfortunately very little information not even his age but says single British man.
 

 Thanks for having a look for me, that entry is interesting, although it is a shame there is no first name or age. Does anybody know how records work in South Africa, am I right in doubting that there would be a census available?

17
England / Missing Sibling - Robert Tatham
« on: Friday 13 January 17 09:53 GMT (UK)  »
 Hi all,
 
 I have been trying to find out what happened to my 2nd great grandmother's brother Robert Tatham but have hit a brick wall so I thought it would post it on Roots Chat and see if anybody can come up with an answer for me.
 
 Robert was born on the 2nd November 1842 at Cleveland Street (I think) Workhouse in Westminster and was baptised at St Anne's Church in Westminster on the 29th December 1842. He was the son of James Thomas Tatham (a Currier) and Ellen Tatham (nee Turley). At the time of his birth his father was somewhere in America having travelled through Ellis Island earlier in the year.
 
 On the 1851 Census Robert is living with his father at Worcester Street, Kidderminster. Unfortunately I don't have a sub with Ancestry at the moment so cannot link the record in but Robert is living with James Tatham (Father, 47, Currier Journeyman, b. London), George Tatham (Brother, 13, Scholar, b. London) and Ellen Tatham (Sister, 11, Scholar, b. London), all living in the house of Samuel Goodyear. Robert himself is down as being 7 and born in London.
 
 Now, here is the tricky bit to explain. When James left Ellen in London they had no idea she was pregnant with Robert and the money she was left with was not enough to keep her family, hence Robert being born in the Workhouse (I think the idea may have been for James to set himself up in the States and call his family over later, but this never happened). Finding herself destitute, Ellen seems to have decided to return to her father's household at Martley, Worcestershire only to leave the parish with a man called James Griffiths. They settled at first at Astley and then at Stourport in Worcestershire and had at least one daughter, Rosannah (b. 1847 - my 2nd great grandmother) and possibly Louisa (b. 1849 - I do not know which of the James's is Louisa's father).
 
 Ellen can be found on the 1851 Census living with her two youngest daughters’ in Bewdley, Worcestershire. Ellen dies in 1857.
 
 By the time of the 1861 Census James Thomas Tatham is living in Walsall, Staffordshire with his children George and Ellen. There is no sign of Robert and I cannot find a suitable entry on the 1861 Census for him. Neither can I find a suitable death entry using either the old GRO Index (freebmd version) or the new one (gro.gov.uk).
 
 I should also mention that his eldest brother, Edward James Tatham, did immigrate to Chicago so there could be a chance that Robert followed his brother over to the States although I believe Edward did not emigrate until later in the 1860’s.
 
 Does anybody have any idea as to what might have become of my Robert?

18
England / Re: A Cato Mystery
« on: Friday 02 December 16 18:24 GMT (UK)  »
I can't offer much at present, but can see why you are excited about Elizabeth Wakley the stay maker.

Presumably you have seen 11 yr old Elizabeth Simpson at 127 Oxford St in 1851, one of the daughters of Elizabeth Simpson, 45 b Northamptonshire, stay maker.  HO107/1487/413/32.


The Avm228,


Thank you for finding the information about Elizabeth. Her mother was a Stay Maker original from Byfield in Northamptonshire. On the 1871 census both of her daughter's are also Stay Makers. Thank you for pointing out that their was a birth date of Elizabeth's baptism, I had the date but for some reason not the birth date in my records.


MercianSte

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