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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Bachellier
« on: Monday 30 November 20 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi it's been a while since I did this research so not very fresh in my mind. This is the notes from my own research file. If this has all been covered already in the thread, I apologise for the repetition, but perhaps there will be something useful for you there:
Judith is claimed on several online trees as a daughter to Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol. Nicholas's son Paul married an Esther Saumon, and members of the Saumon family act as Godparents for Judiths’ children. Judith also named a son Nicolas, so a close relationship between her and his family likely existed.
However, unlike the other children of Nicolas, no evidence exists of Judith in London prior to her marriage in 1704. Nicolas and his family consistently give their place of origin as Villeparisis or Paris. On the only known occasion Judith provides her own place of origin (Son Timothy’s baptism 1729) she provides Meaux en Brie.
Nicolas fled direct from France to England after the destruction of the Charenton Temple in late 1685. In the first year in England 1686, his family appear in the charity records of the Threadneedle Street Church several times. On one instance Nicolas claims for himself, wife and three children. The children are not named, but if the numbers are accurate, this alone seems to rule out Judith as a daughter, as three children, born prior to 1686, are accounted for in later records:
1. Nicolas Bachelier Jr (born France circa 1674) married Madelaine Deshayes London 1697
2. Marie Magdeliane Bachelier (born France circa 1679) married Abraham Pottier London 1701 rem Paul Boucher London 1721
3. Paul Bachelier (born France circa 1680) married Esther Saumon London 1706, remarried to Marie Gaucheron London 1725
Nicolas, his wife, and all three of his children appear as godparents at Threadneedle Street Church London, on ten occasions between 1687-1701. They also appear at the smaller St Jeans Chapel in Spitalfields in 1697 when Nicolas stands as a godparent there. It would seem strange Judith not similarly appearing in these records prior to 1704 if she were indeed part of that immediate family.
The couple I instead favour as her parents, Jean and Judith Bachelier, arrived in London in the summer of 1701, joining Threadneedle Street church on 31st August that year. They had a testimonial of faith from the Huguenot congregation at the Waals Kirk Haarlem.
A month later Marie Madelaine Bachelier, Nicolas's daughter, got married at Threadneedle Street. Six days earlier she publicly announced her intention to marry at La Patente Huguenot Chapel, Spitalfields:
1701. 25 Sep POTTIER & BACHELLIER Abraham Pottier, weaver, residing in Ouyle (Wheeler) Street, Stepney, born of Nanteuil, Meaux en Brie, Son of Abraham Potier and the deceased Magdelaine Cadet, - and Marie Madelaine Bachelier, born of Paris, and daughter of Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol; together announce their intention to be married publically in the Church of Stepney, in unity, and without opposition.
Statement witnessed and signed by: J. Bachelier, N. Bachelier, Paul Bachelier, Marie Rossignol, Pierre Nepueu, Jacob Pottier, Jean Robert, Louis Robert. Minister: Balguerie
This is the first time the Bacheliers are on record using this chapel, and the first time a 'J. Bachelier' appears on any London records. Significantly, this is the same chapel Judith Bachelier uses to baptise her children to Antoine Deverdun 1705-1729.
If Judith were a daughter to Jean and Judith, and Nicolas and Marie instead extended relations, perhaps Uncle/Aunt, this would explain why Judith Bachelier/Deverdun calls a child Nicolas, and why Marie Bachelier and Marie Saumon, Esther Saumon/Bachelier's sister, appear as godparents to her and Antoine's children at La Patente.
When Jean and Judith Bachelier appear on the 1709 Royal Bounty accounts the following info is giving for them:
Jean Bachelier, 52, of Meaux en Brie, Weaver, and Judith his wife, 65, residing at Phoenix Street, Spitalfields were paid 15 shillings.
This would make them 26 and 39 respectively at the approximate time Judith was born in France, circa 1683, and the place of origin matches that Judith gives, unlike Nicolas and Marie Bachelier. In addition to this Judith Bachelier's daughter Elizabeth Deverdun/Morgue later also records Phoenix Street, Spitalfields, as her address, in 1763.
Judith’s marriage to Antoine Deverdun, also fits this scenario better, as he too came to London, from Haarlem or Amsterdam, 1701-3, as did most of the other individuals and families who act as godparents to the couple’s children at La Patente.
Judith is claimed on several online trees as a daughter to Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol. Nicholas's son Paul married an Esther Saumon, and members of the Saumon family act as Godparents for Judiths’ children. Judith also named a son Nicolas, so a close relationship between her and his family likely existed.
However, unlike the other children of Nicolas, no evidence exists of Judith in London prior to her marriage in 1704. Nicolas and his family consistently give their place of origin as Villeparisis or Paris. On the only known occasion Judith provides her own place of origin (Son Timothy’s baptism 1729) she provides Meaux en Brie.
Nicolas fled direct from France to England after the destruction of the Charenton Temple in late 1685. In the first year in England 1686, his family appear in the charity records of the Threadneedle Street Church several times. On one instance Nicolas claims for himself, wife and three children. The children are not named, but if the numbers are accurate, this alone seems to rule out Judith as a daughter, as three children, born prior to 1686, are accounted for in later records:
1. Nicolas Bachelier Jr (born France circa 1674) married Madelaine Deshayes London 1697
2. Marie Magdeliane Bachelier (born France circa 1679) married Abraham Pottier London 1701 rem Paul Boucher London 1721
3. Paul Bachelier (born France circa 1680) married Esther Saumon London 1706, remarried to Marie Gaucheron London 1725
Nicolas, his wife, and all three of his children appear as godparents at Threadneedle Street Church London, on ten occasions between 1687-1701. They also appear at the smaller St Jeans Chapel in Spitalfields in 1697 when Nicolas stands as a godparent there. It would seem strange Judith not similarly appearing in these records prior to 1704 if she were indeed part of that immediate family.
The couple I instead favour as her parents, Jean and Judith Bachelier, arrived in London in the summer of 1701, joining Threadneedle Street church on 31st August that year. They had a testimonial of faith from the Huguenot congregation at the Waals Kirk Haarlem.
A month later Marie Madelaine Bachelier, Nicolas's daughter, got married at Threadneedle Street. Six days earlier she publicly announced her intention to marry at La Patente Huguenot Chapel, Spitalfields:
1701. 25 Sep POTTIER & BACHELLIER Abraham Pottier, weaver, residing in Ouyle (Wheeler) Street, Stepney, born of Nanteuil, Meaux en Brie, Son of Abraham Potier and the deceased Magdelaine Cadet, - and Marie Madelaine Bachelier, born of Paris, and daughter of Nicolas Bachelier and Marie Rossignol; together announce their intention to be married publically in the Church of Stepney, in unity, and without opposition.
Statement witnessed and signed by: J. Bachelier, N. Bachelier, Paul Bachelier, Marie Rossignol, Pierre Nepueu, Jacob Pottier, Jean Robert, Louis Robert. Minister: Balguerie
This is the first time the Bacheliers are on record using this chapel, and the first time a 'J. Bachelier' appears on any London records. Significantly, this is the same chapel Judith Bachelier uses to baptise her children to Antoine Deverdun 1705-1729.
If Judith were a daughter to Jean and Judith, and Nicolas and Marie instead extended relations, perhaps Uncle/Aunt, this would explain why Judith Bachelier/Deverdun calls a child Nicolas, and why Marie Bachelier and Marie Saumon, Esther Saumon/Bachelier's sister, appear as godparents to her and Antoine's children at La Patente.
When Jean and Judith Bachelier appear on the 1709 Royal Bounty accounts the following info is giving for them:
Jean Bachelier, 52, of Meaux en Brie, Weaver, and Judith his wife, 65, residing at Phoenix Street, Spitalfields were paid 15 shillings.
This would make them 26 and 39 respectively at the approximate time Judith was born in France, circa 1683, and the place of origin matches that Judith gives, unlike Nicolas and Marie Bachelier. In addition to this Judith Bachelier's daughter Elizabeth Deverdun/Morgue later also records Phoenix Street, Spitalfields, as her address, in 1763.
Judith’s marriage to Antoine Deverdun, also fits this scenario better, as he too came to London, from Haarlem or Amsterdam, 1701-3, as did most of the other individuals and families who act as godparents to the couple’s children at La Patente.