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Messages - silicondale

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1
London and Middlesex / Re: Silk mercers of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes
« on: Wednesday 15 May 24 20:38 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks, Ashtone! I hadn't seen these. IF (big IF) this is our William White it goes some way to filling in the gaps. Then after his bankruptcy in 1796, his youngest daughter Ann Maria, born 1785, went into service as a housemaid on the Duke of Bedford's estate at Woburn Abbey.

One of the coincidences (which I didn't mention before) was that there was also a William White in Woburn, who had a large family, with his last child born in 1770, named Ann. The William White in St Clement Danes was married in 1772, first child Lettice born 1773. I think it very likely that these are the same William White, and the same person who died in Woburn in 1810 and whose house at 14 Leighton Street passed to Andrew Henley, William Henley's father. I haven't found any record of the death of William White's first wife in 1770-1772 if they are the same person, but it all fits - however, still no evidence to back up a plausible story. His youngest daughter born 1785 was christened Ann Maria - odd for a family that didn't use second Christian names, but maybe necessary to identify her! The Ann(e) White born 1770 married in Woburn in 1789, so unlikely to have been William Henley's wife. Much more likely Ann Maria, even if she dropped her second name.

The more you dig, the more you find it's a rabbit-hole - and one with lots of branching possibilities, a veritable rabbit warren.

2
London and Middlesex / Re: Silk mercers of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes
« on: Wednesday 15 May 24 17:33 BST (UK)  »
Yes - William was the second child of John Henley and Esther Vine. Their first was a daughter, Esther, born in 1839. They had nine further children between then and 1862.

3
London and Middlesex / Re: Silk mercers of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes
« on: Wednesday 15 May 24 17:15 BST (UK)  »
1851: 3 Mighell Street: Lettice White, Head, unmarried, age 77, seamstress, born London St Clements.
And yes, in 1841 she was a servant in the household of Miss Charlotte Wheeler at 24 Sussex Square in the (then) smart new Kemp Town development - not far from John Henley's shop at 77 St James Street.
Lettice was born 1773?, christened at St Clement Danes 29/8/1773

4
London and Middlesex / Re: Silk mercers of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes
« on: Wednesday 15 May 24 16:51 BST (UK)  »
From a letter that John wrote to his sister-in-law (Rhoda, then living in Brenchley, Kent) the day after his marriage, listing people who attended and specifically his aunt Lettice White, but with no mention of his parents. He did mention 'mother' but from the context it seems he was referring to his mother-in-law Mary Vine. Her husband William Vine had died in 1836 only a few days after formally welcoming John Henley into the Salem Chapel (Particular Baptists) of which he was an elder.

This statement in the letter is interesting: “We have taken appartments in Mother’s House the Parlour opposite the Workroom and the Bedroom above” - the house referred to is 1 Vine Place, a large cottage built by William Vine close to his windmill on Clifton Hill. The 1841 census shows that it had become quite crowded.

Interesting that John was apparetly not a very strict Baptist, as in 1840 he was suspended from membership of the chapel for "walking in the fields on the Lord's Day when the chapel was open for divine service". All subsequent family occasions - christenings, weddings, burials, were at St Nicholas church.

I guess, even so, there is a small possibility that his parents did attend. I have found no evidence that they ever lived in Brighton, but even if they were there, it doesn't tell us anything about the intervening 25 years from 1811 to 1836.

5
London and Middlesex / Silk mercers of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes
« on: Wednesday 15 May 24 14:44 BST (UK)  »
I am looking for any sources of information on silk mercers in Holywell Street, St Clement Danes. No certainty that there is any family connection, but ...

My 3g-grandfather was William Henley, born Woburn, Bedfordshire 1782. He married Ann White (youngest daughter of William White and Lettice Street of St Clement Danes) in Woburn in 1805. In 1803 she and Catherine Henley, William's cousin, were both housemaids at Woburn Abbey (from primary evidence of employment records in the Russell collection held by Bedfordshire archives).  William and Ann had a son John in 1810 but he vanished from the records until he is recorded again in Brighton in 1836, marrying there in 1838 by which time he was a fully qualified tailor with a shop on St James's Street, Brighton. A letter written by John mentions his aunt Lettice White (his mother's eldest sister), who census records indicate came from St Clement Danes and was living in Brighton in 1841 and 1851. The link with St Clement Danes is clearly established. What is unclear is where the family - William, Ann, and their son John were living between 1810 and 1836, and what happened to John's parents - who did not attend his wedding.
In April 1810, William White died in Woburn (this may or may not be the same William White) and in 1810-11 Andrew Henley, William Henley's father, replaced William White as ratepayer at the Henley family's home 14 Leighton Street, Woburn.

What follows is largely supposition, pieced together from newspaper reports and gazetted bankuptcy notices.
In 1796 William White of Holywell Street, St Clement Danes, "mercer, dealer, and chapman" was bankrupt. This could have been Ann's father but we have no proof.
In 1818 Johnstone’s London Commercial Guide lists silk mercers in Holywell Street as including Brewman B.H. at No.14. On 31 July 1819 a partnership was dissolved, Barnet Hart Brewman and William Henley, silk-mercers of Holywell Street, and in February 1820 William Henley, late of Holywell Street, Strand, silk-mercer, dealer and chapman, was bankrupt.
There are a number of 'loose ends' and coincidences that I'm not going to mention here, as they are likely to be irrelevant and only confuse the issue.

What I would like to know is whether there are any sources of information on silk mercers of London and of Holywell Street in particular, that might help to confirm my speculation or rule it out. William's son John became a tailor, so any apprenticeship records in the 1820s could also be helpful!
.

6
Bedfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Woburn parish registers: HENLEY
« on: Monday 30 October 23 08:37 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks! That reminder is useful. I knew about the entry for William Henley, and it is consistent with him moving to London or Brighton. I think 'removed' may just mean that he moved away from Woburn - not that he was removed i.e. expelled! Thanks for the mention of Jane White - one that needs checking, as I don't have any mention of a Jane White. Possibly the wife of one of William's sons.
The move must have been after 1816 because William Henley was the first secretary of the Benevolent Brothers Benefit Society, a 'friendly society' set up in Woburn in 1816. His cousin Thomas was the first chairman. One of the conditions of membership was that all family members had to be vaccinated against smallpox. Very early adopters of vaccination!

7
Bedfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Woburn parish registers: HENLEY
« on: Sunday 29 October 23 16:01 GMT (UK)  »
There is solid evidence for John being the son of William Henley and Ann White. Ann came from St Clement Danes, Westminster. In 1803 (information from the Russelll archives) she was a housemaid in Woburn Abbey alongside Catherine Henley, William's cousin, and her elder sister Lettice was a witness at John Henley's own marriage in Brighton in 1838. The mystery was William Ralph. Looking at the dates of birth he cannot have had the same mother as John. William Ralph was the illegitimate son of Anne Ralph, who never married. His father was a William Henley: most likely the same one, though could have been his uncle. Too many Williams! The big question is who were the parents of Joseph born 1799. My best guess is William Henley and Mary Raklph, both then aged 17. Mary Ralph was Ann's sister. There was another child, in 1802, christened 23 May: Rebecca Ralph (father unnamed, mother Ann Ralph). Rebecca died 5 Aug 1802. Complicated story. And that's before we try to unravel the White family in Woburn and in St Clement Danes. That one is not for rootschat because I doubt if there's any documentary evidence that would help - but it seems that William White (Ann's and Lettice's father) had a family in Woburn 1750s to 1770, and another family in St Clement Danes 1772-1785. He was the tenant and ratepayer of 14 Leighton Street, Woburn until his death in 1810, when the tenancy was taken over by Andrew Henley (William's father). 

8
Bedfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Woburn parish registers: HENLEY
« on: Sunday 29 October 23 10:24 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks. The age 29 years makes this fit better than the one that I had, which was a Joseph Henley born 1790 (son of Andrew Henley and Elizabeth Chevall). Of course it means I now have to search for what happened to this one! However, there are indications that two brothers of the 1790 Joseph moved away from Woburn, and circumstantial evidence that they may have gone to London.
-Stephen

9
Bedfordshire Lookup Requests / Woburn parish registers: HENLEY
« on: Thursday 12 October 23 09:23 BST (UK)  »
I have the typewritten copy but need confirmation from original parish registers or bishop's transcripts because there are three baptism entries that don't make a lot of sense.

Joseph born 23/12/1799 bapt 23/2/1800 William and Mary Henley. There were no William and Mary Henley marriages in Woburn. Could it have been William Henley and Mary X or William X and Mary Henley, or could the 'Mary' be incorrect, as William Henley and Sarah would make sense? This Joseph doesn't seem to appear anywhere in subsequent records so possibly the William and Mary are from elsewhere, not otherwise appearing in Woburn parish records.

John born 16/11/1810 bapt 9/12/1810 William and Ann Henley
William Ralph born 16/4/1811 bapt 30/6/1811 William and Ann Henley
This is of course impossible if it's the same Ann. I think John is definitely the son of William Henley and his wife Ann (nee White). I think Ralph is the surname of the other Ann - who was unmarried and 5 years older than William (if it was the same William Henley). So that the child was given the surname Ralph, not a middle name Ralph.

Are there any clues in the original handwritten registers?

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