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Messages - missyirwing

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Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« on: Tuesday 24 September 13 17:17 BST (UK)  »
Hi Frank,

I do not usually post on forums but I saw your posts and felt I had to make you aware of the information I had that was contrary to the information you were given.

I do not believe that the James Ramsey born October 1789 is the father of George Ramsey born 1816, not least for the fact the the indenture of 1807 states that James had reached the age of 21 "sometime ago", thereby indicating he was born before 1786.

Thanks to the indenture we do know who James Ramsey's parents were, namely James and Elizabeth Ramsey.  I strongly believe that James was born circa 1781; as we have information from a legal document, I think we can be far more certain of the facts rather than conjecture based on parish records alone.  I am convinced that once I find James and Elizabeth's marriage, this will lead me to the births of James, Elizabeth and William.

James Ramsey born circa 1781 married Sarah Clough (born circa 1786) at Bubwith on 14 July 1803 after banns.

Elizabeth Ramsey/Leak/Hatfield, mother of James b 1781 and grandmother of George b 1816 was buried at Bubwith on 21 October 1818 aged 71 years. 

I have seen the marriage of James& Sarah and the burial of Elizabeth in the parish records to verify them, that is not information from IGI.

I am descended from James' sister Elizabeth Ramsey through her daughter Mary Ann Kay, who was born in Sykehouse in 1820.  She was christened in Fishlake, as Sykehouse did not have its own church at the time.  Fishlake, Sykehouse, Stainforth and Hatfield are all in close proximity.

If I can help you further please don't hesitate to ask and when I make further progress I will let you know  :)

Kind regards
Sharon

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Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / Re: JAMES RAMSEY, Looking for a birth North Cave cc1781.
« on: Tuesday 24 September 13 13:26 BST (UK)  »
Hello Frank,

I am a descendant of James' sister Elizabeth.  I am quite certain that their parents are not Edward and Elizabeth Ramsey. 

There is an Indenture in the East Riding of Yorkshire archives at Beverley dated 4th April 1807 which relates to James Ramsey, his brother William Ramsey (who at that time were labourers in Howden) and their sister Elizabeth Kay (nee Ramsey, my ancestor) who at that time was living in Sykehouse (close to Hatfield) with her husband John Kay.  This indenture relates to a lease on land and windmill at Spaldington near Howden.  It refers to their parents as James Ramsey farmer, deceased and Elizabeth.  The document indicates that after the death of James Ramsey senior, Elizabeth senior married Thomas Leak, miller of Spaldington - they were married in Aughton, near Bubwith on 1 December 1785.  After Thomas Leak passed away, Elizabeth senior remarried again to Thomas Hatfield, yeoman in Bubwith on 27 October 1803.

Elizabeth Ramsey junior and John Kay were married in Bubwith on 25 May 1804, less than a year after her brother James and Sarah Clough.  Spaldington was in the parish of Bubwith.  The indenture dated 1807 states "the said James Ramsey, William Ramsey and Elizabeth Kay have some time ago respectievly attained their respective ages of 21 years", so we can be sure that all three were born prior to 1786 (notwithstanding their mother's marriage to Leak in 1785).  You may be interested to know that James Ramsey signed the indenture and was the only one of the three siblings who was literate.

As the lady above stated, the North Cave parish register consists of loose leaves and may or may not be incomplete.  I have also looked at the Bishop's Transcript for North Cave and cannot find a marriage of James and Elizabeth Ramsey or births of their children in North Cave parish.  It is interesting to note that in the parish register for Elizabeth's marriage to Thomas Leak her surname is given as Ramsdale.  There are some Ramsdales in Holme-upon-Spalding-Moor and this may be an oversight on the part of the vicar, as James clearly signs himself Ramsey.  There is a marriage of a James and Elizabeth Ramsdale in Holme-upon-Spalding-Moor but given the ages of the children and indication of age in the indenture, I do not believe them to be our ancestors.

I have searched for the births in most of the neighbouring parishes and will return to check others and additional Bishop's Transcripts.  They clearly thought they were born in North Cave and maybe they were (at their grandmother's perhaps) but they do not appear to have been baptised there.

James' brother William also moved to Hatfield but later moved to Huntingdonshire and Northamptonshire, where he was a farmer of 155 acres.

Kind regards
Sharon

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