1
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Monday 19 February 24 22:42 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant, thanks so much!
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2
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Monday 19 February 24 10:09 GMT (UK) »
Can I ask for help with deciphering the witnesses here too please? I've just now found the marriage contract for Françoise MANDINEAU and Jean JAMIN (parish record of the same linked a few posts back, in which she was described as "nouvel converti")
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s006143790f9820f/6143790fb0d95
I believe this document might link her Francois MANDINEAU and Suzanne GALLOT (uncle and aunt?) but it's (once again) a little hard to make out the relationships in the text. I think so far I have (and please excuse my errors):
"[...] du côté de ladite Mandineau dudit Mandineau de ladite Renée Flandreau épouse et mere, de Jeanne Mandineau sa soeur, de
Flandreau et de Jacques [Roclereau?] ses oncles, de Pierre [Breau?] son oncle, de Françoise Mandineau et Suzanne Gallot sa tante, de Madeleine [Brunel?] aussi sa tante, de André Billard son cousin germain..."
Any help much appreciated!
(I'm starting to put together a bit of a tree for that branch of the family based on these relationships to see if I can tie my people into it -- they seem the most likely bunch so far. I believe (based on other records with relationships listed) that Francois MANDINEAU (married to Suzanne GALLOT) was the brother of Antoine MANDINEAU (married to Catherine GAUTRON) of Bazoges-en-Pareds, who are listed alongside Jean MANDINEAU in Riviere's list of refugees (in the first doc shared.)
Thanks in advance.
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s006143790f9820f/6143790fb0d95
I believe this document might link her Francois MANDINEAU and Suzanne GALLOT (uncle and aunt?) but it's (once again) a little hard to make out the relationships in the text. I think so far I have (and please excuse my errors):
"[...] du côté de ladite Mandineau dudit Mandineau de ladite Renée Flandreau épouse et mere, de Jeanne Mandineau sa soeur, de
Flandreau et de Jacques [Roclereau?] ses oncles, de Pierre [Breau?] son oncle, de Françoise Mandineau et Suzanne Gallot sa tante, de Madeleine [Brunel?] aussi sa tante, de André Billard son cousin germain..."Any help much appreciated!
(I'm starting to put together a bit of a tree for that branch of the family based on these relationships to see if I can tie my people into it -- they seem the most likely bunch so far. I believe (based on other records with relationships listed) that Francois MANDINEAU (married to Suzanne GALLOT) was the brother of Antoine MANDINEAU (married to Catherine GAUTRON) of Bazoges-en-Pareds, who are listed alongside Jean MANDINEAU in Riviere's list of refugees (in the first doc shared.)
Thanks in advance.
3
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Monday 19 February 24 07:44 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both so much! That's really building a picture now and it feels like there's a solid chance of this being the family of the Jean Mandineau who later goes on to say he's from both La Châtaigneraie and Moncoutant.
So we have:
1688: abjuration of Pierre MANDINEAU, aged around 26, originally of Bazoges-en-Pareds, taken in La Châtaigneraie.
[no marriage for Pierre & Marguerite found so far]
1694-1701: Children of Pierre MANDINEAU and Marguerite RUAUD born, baptised in La Châtaigneraie.
1709: Death of Pierre MANDINEAU, aged around 50
1721-1727: Marriage contracts for Anne, Jeanne, and Pierre, taken in La Châtaigneraie (bigger town, perhaps, for this kind of administrative thing? Wonder if that's why they're listed there rather than Moncoutant?) stating that the family is from those listed locations surrounding or in Moncoutant.
...1736 Jean shows up in London stating he's from both La Châtaigneraie (temoinage) and Moncoutant (marriage).
I think the next step for me might be to look further back into the Bazoges-en-Pareds records and see if I can find any more links to the family (since Pierre's abjuration in 1688 suggests that's where he originates from), then look again into the records of Moncoutant and surrounding areas for any RUAU / RUAUD ancestors on Marguerite's side. Feels possible that she's the connection there rather than on the Mandineau side...possibly moved back there after Pierre died in 1709? (pure supposition, of course).
Thanks again for all your help!
So we have:
1688: abjuration of Pierre MANDINEAU, aged around 26, originally of Bazoges-en-Pareds, taken in La Châtaigneraie.
[no marriage for Pierre & Marguerite found so far]
1694-1701: Children of Pierre MANDINEAU and Marguerite RUAUD born, baptised in La Châtaigneraie.
1709: Death of Pierre MANDINEAU, aged around 50
1721-1727: Marriage contracts for Anne, Jeanne, and Pierre, taken in La Châtaigneraie (bigger town, perhaps, for this kind of administrative thing? Wonder if that's why they're listed there rather than Moncoutant?) stating that the family is from those listed locations surrounding or in Moncoutant.
...1736 Jean shows up in London stating he's from both La Châtaigneraie (temoinage) and Moncoutant (marriage).
I think the next step for me might be to look further back into the Bazoges-en-Pareds records and see if I can find any more links to the family (since Pierre's abjuration in 1688 suggests that's where he originates from), then look again into the records of Moncoutant and surrounding areas for any RUAU / RUAUD ancestors on Marguerite's side. Feels possible that she's the connection there rather than on the Mandineau side...possibly moved back there after Pierre died in 1709? (pure supposition, of course).
Thanks again for all your help!
4
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Sunday 18 February 24 05:09 GMT (UK) »
Pierre MANDINEAU, witness (cousin germain; not sure if cousin of husband or wife) at the marriage of Perrine RUAU and Pierre GUINOT in 1693 in Breuil-Barret (very close to La Châtaigneraie)
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dfa2e420c592/5e031f6ba5128
Feels like this could be some kind of connection? I'd been wondering if Perrine and Marguerite might have been sisters, but it's interesting that the connection seems to be through Pierre. Hmmm.
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dfa2e420c592/5e031f6ba5128
Feels like this could be some kind of connection? I'd been wondering if Perrine and Marguerite might have been sisters, but it's interesting that the connection seems to be through Pierre. Hmmm.
5
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Sunday 18 February 24 00:26 GMT (UK) »
Starting to put together a bit of an interesting picture here. Wondering if anyone can help me with deciphering a bit of detail in the text of these marriage contracts, particularly the parts that detail where each family lives and their local parish? The documents themselves (I think??) are listed in the archives as being from La Châtaigneraie, but within there seems to be further detail about where specifically the families were from.
Any help much appreciated!
I have:
1721: Anne MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Isaac GIRARD
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s0060474d0ba9a0f/60474d0c375ce
Very hard to read but it looks like the Mandineau family is living in ?? Village of L'Aisses? Parish of ?? Breuil-Bernard??? (edited to add: I've found Breuil-Bernard very close to Moncoutant, but I'm still unsure of the name of the village that comes before that.)
It also looks like "fille de defunt Pierre Mandineau" so I'm guessing he's dead by this point? (in fact I think I have his potential death record here:)
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2a34cc91cb/5dd2a3a9d7b39
1725: Jeanne MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Jacques GUYNOT
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603ca81a4a614/603ca81ae7ccc
This one I really struggle to read the locations, but is it wishful thinking that there's a part that looks like "paroisse de Moncoutant"? in there?
1726: Pierre MANDINEAU (fils de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD)m Elisabeth MARAILLEAU
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603ca81a4a614/603ca81b8e689
This one also looks like it says "paroisse de Moncoutant"
1727: Marie MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Jean GINDREAU
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603bb861bb8aa/603bb861f02e7
Also this one, though it maybe looks like "Bourg de Moncoutant"
Jean Mandineau is conspicuously absent from this series of marriages (which constitutes all the siblings I could find of his.)
I did find this reference which threw me off the scent for a bit:
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s006039184fd38a6/6039184feab0a
...but I'm almost certain this is a different Jean Mandineau, because when his first wife dies in 1752 she is listed as 68 years old, and when he dies in 1767 he is listed as 78 years old, which doesn't tally with Jean (son of Pierre and Marguerite) being born in 1701.
***
All of which is to say...if anyone can help with deciphering the locations in this text, it would be much appreciated and might get me one step closer to locating my Jean Mandineau.
Thanks!
Any help much appreciated!
I have:
1721: Anne MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Isaac GIRARD
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s0060474d0ba9a0f/60474d0c375ce
Very hard to read but it looks like the Mandineau family is living in ?? Village of L'Aisses? Parish of ?? Breuil-Bernard??? (edited to add: I've found Breuil-Bernard very close to Moncoutant, but I'm still unsure of the name of the village that comes before that.)
It also looks like "fille de defunt Pierre Mandineau" so I'm guessing he's dead by this point? (in fact I think I have his potential death record here:)
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2a34cc91cb/5dd2a3a9d7b39
1725: Jeanne MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Jacques GUYNOT
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603ca81a4a614/603ca81ae7ccc
This one I really struggle to read the locations, but is it wishful thinking that there's a part that looks like "paroisse de Moncoutant"? in there?
1726: Pierre MANDINEAU (fils de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD)m Elisabeth MARAILLEAU
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603ca81a4a614/603ca81b8e689
This one also looks like it says "paroisse de Moncoutant"
1727: Marie MANDINEAU (fille de Pierre MANDINEAU et Marguerite RUAD) m Jean GINDREAU
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s00603bb861bb8aa/603bb861f02e7
Also this one, though it maybe looks like "Bourg de Moncoutant"
Jean Mandineau is conspicuously absent from this series of marriages (which constitutes all the siblings I could find of his.)
I did find this reference which threw me off the scent for a bit:
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s006039184fd38a6/6039184feab0a
...but I'm almost certain this is a different Jean Mandineau, because when his first wife dies in 1752 she is listed as 68 years old, and when he dies in 1767 he is listed as 78 years old, which doesn't tally with Jean (son of Pierre and Marguerite) being born in 1701.
***
All of which is to say...if anyone can help with deciphering the locations in this text, it would be much appreciated and might get me one step closer to locating my Jean Mandineau.
Thanks!
6
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Saturday 17 February 24 22:12 GMT (UK) »
Ooh, and another one. The abjuration of Pierre MANDINEAU, from Bazoges-en-Pareds, in La Châtaigneraie in 1688. At least I think so?
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2a3a7e9819/5dfc7a61795c4
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2a3a7e9819/5dfc7a61795c4
7
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Saturday 17 February 24 21:58 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone make out the names of the witnesses and their familial connections in this document? It's the marriage of Françoise MANDINEAU and Jean JAMIN in nearby Mouilleron-en-Pareds, and it caught my eye because Françoise is listed as "nouvel converti".
Thought I'd poke about and see if I can build up her family and see if my Jean is connected, but I'm struggling to read the last bit where the witnesses and their relationships are named. I can spot two Mandineaus amongst them though.
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2c5d012a68/5dd2c5d021cd7
Thought I'd poke about and see if I can build up her family and see if my Jean is connected, but I'm struggling to read the last bit where the witnesses and their relationships are named. I can spot two Mandineaus amongst them though.
https://etatcivil-archives.vendee.fr/ark:/22574/s005dd2c5d012a68/5dd2c5d021cd7
8
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Saturday 17 February 24 20:23 GMT (UK) »This feels like a useful bit of information to have too:
(can't figure out how to insert a screenshot so typing out the text)
"Il est probable qu'aux registres de réfuge certains fugitifs indiquaient comme lieu d'origine non leur paroisse particulière mais le siège de leur prêche [sp??] réformé."
(Link here):
https://archives-deux-sevres-vienne.fr/ark:/28387/vta6d86523fff26829d/daoloc/0/1?id=https%3A%2F%2Farchives-deux-sevres-vienne.fr%2Fark%3A%2F28387%2Fvta6d86523fff26829d%2Fcanvas%2F0%2F278&vx=1839.21&vy=-3907.57&vr=0&vz=5.52889
Then on the following pages there appear to be lists pertaining to this. Can anyone help to unpick what the lists indicate? I'm guessing that the first column in red is the village / location, and the one in blue indicates the locations of the reformed church or something?
Might this offer clues as to which records to dig into next, I wonder?
"Il est probable qu'aux registres de refuge certains fugitifs indiquaient comme lieu d'origine non leur paroisse particulière mais le siège de leur prêche réformé"
For example : a protestant lived in a small village (A )where there was no protestant minister, he had to go to the nearest village (B) where there was one . In England when asked where did he came from he answered : from B.
Page 277 :
in red : the parish
in blue: the village
they aren't always the same , for example :
Ah, thank you! Very helpful.
9
Europe / Re: Parish records for La Châtaigneraie ?
« on: Saturday 17 February 24 20:23 GMT (UK) »Re the codes and other information, it looks like the X's in column 6 and 11 (key on p 350) mean:
6: a été mauvais converti, catholique preverti [not sure about the exact spelling of this word; it's hard to read], opiniâtre dans la foi reformé, militant, ou membres des églises aux 16ème et 17ème siècles.
11. a quitté le royaume pour la réligion [...]
Does 6 imply a forced abjuration at some point? Or am I misunderstanding "mauvais converti" ?
Yes indeed it implies an unsincere abjuration. And it was in Poitou that he first "dragonnades" took place :
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonnades
Thank you! I suppose that having a tick in that column might imply that this is something I can find somewhere in the archives for Jean. Will keep hunting.