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Messages - Toddstown

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1
Monaghan / Re: LEMON
« on: Wednesday 03 May 17 14:03 BST (UK)  »
I do not deal with ancestry autosomal DNA matches so cannot be of any help there, but hope your AtDNA results have been transferred into ftdna's projects. Please compare your Lemon matches/YDNA results from Family Tree DNA lab, Houston TX. Am sure you have joined your YDNA to the Lemon surname project(s) at ftdna.  Work with your volunteer project administrator there -- YDNA testing/haplogroup SNP refinement has greatly advanced but you dont mention YDNA progress-do test and consider Big Y, which then is eligible to advance into YFull's excellent analysis.

Please refer to technologist founder of the YDNA,  Todd DNA Project, Terry Todd, of Illinois USA, early scans of these Rev. Samuel Agnew pages (which are owned and held by the Kentucky repository as set forth earlier):

http://74.93.73.41/agnew/page-03.png
Isabella Lemon (4) b1820 m. Thomas Leghorn

http://74.93.73.41/agnew/page-02.png
Matilda Lemon m. ______ Dunwoody and had 10 kids, one of which is Martha Dunwoody, #6 of 10, m. D. McCoy [Nickles, McCrum, some Dunwoodys to America];

2nd child, Wm Lemon m. ______, and had a son David Lemon, ___________________ (no detail on this David...so ?)

Hope you consider and place the Lemon's of Ballymorran as stated on the Ros Davies' pages for County Down as set forth in this thread.

So yes Leghorn/Dunwoody/Lemon/Todd are all tied to my Group 2 YDNA Todd results--so not Group 1 YDNA Todd results (Mary Todd Lincoln line). My old notes refer to  "William Lemon's property near Newbliss" --so perhaps you could study this clue. I see that Newbliss also arose in an email I received 3 March 2009 from Richard McMurty, which I quote here:

"By the 1858s, there were only 8 Todd families in Monaghan:
Emyvale-Annagh-Tiravera area:  James, Mgt and 3 John’s about 25-30 km from New Bliss
Kilmore: Wm Todd only 11 km from New Bliss
Monghan: Elizabeth about 17 km from Newbliss
 
The next step for the Monaghan Todds would be to research the tithe records from the 1820s to get a picture of the Todds who remained behind. Then, the next step would be to begin systematically getting the marriage records of Todds in Monaghan from the 1840s and deaths from the 1860s to construct  a family tree of the Monaghan Todds.  This would not identify Andrew, father of Samuel Rutherford Todd b 1807 but it would show you the family that stayed behind and give a better idea of where in Co Monaghan Andrew came from. Depending on the DNA signature, you might even be able to prove connection to the Monaghan Todds who remained in Ireland. I can find no Todds in Co Monaghan today, but there are  few in nearby Co Tyrone and Armagh.
Richard"     [Richard McMurtry's email to Toddstown [rootschat], dated March 2009]

2
Monaghan / Todd Group 2 YDNA includes Ballymorran, Killinchy, County Down Todds
« on: Tuesday 02 May 17 13:31 BST (UK)  »
Please see expert researcher, Richard McMurtry's colorful YDNA chart (circa 2011) entitled "DNA Patterns of the Todd Families of Northern Ireland." (filename below: todddnaparishmapofulster.pdf)  This YDNA page refers to the Todd Families, DNA Group 2 using royal blue circles on the multiple maps.  Group 2 YDNA, includes the Ballymorran, Killinchy, County Down, Todd/Scott/Marshall? heritage. Ballymorran is of particular interest to me due to the marriage records at Killinchy Presbyterian Church which I verified years ago pointing to the southern Ohio, USA  line of Todds (but I had no luck confirming parentage of Robert Todd (born 12 Aug 1806 / died 23 Feb. 1899, Butler County, Ohio, USA), husband of Prudence Ann Scott (born 25 Dec 1814 / died 6 Oct 1874, Butler County, Ohio USA- -Prudence is to be daughter of William SCOTT and Margaret CALDWELL or daughter of Samuel SCOTT and _____ (with a Samuel Scott to be in Ballymorran land records?)  Robert Todd and Prudence Ann SCOTT married at Killinchy Presby Church, 9 Mar 1833 and had ten children. Possible parents for this Robert Todd are to be: Samuel TODD  (born say c1760s-1780s) and wife Mary Ann MARSHALL (or perhaps ?? Wm Samuel Todd ??)-- Marshalls seem to be of Ballymorran, but nothing of this generation was able to be solidified... Could this family tie into anyone's research?

Here are a few of Richard's many links and pre 2012 pages- yes these still work as of this posting:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/irishscottishtodddna.htm
Irish and Scottish Todd DNA Final Report, Jan. 2011

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/todddnaentrance.htm
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/scotlandtodddnamap.pdf
freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/todddnaparishmapofulster.pdf

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/toddentrance.htm
The Todd Families of America, Ireland, and Scotland   

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcmurtriecfr/richard/todd/irishtoddhome.htm
The Todds of Northern Ireland

Does your Ayrshire line fall into Group 2?

I've just found this site - I've been doing Todd family history over the past year and traced the Todd family back to Fenwick, Ayrshire around 1700. I'm curious about the Todd family Haghill in the 1600s - whether there's a connection to the Fenwick Tod(d)'s as they're only 15-20 miles away.

3
Monaghan / Jhone TODE (TODD) & Bessy GYLHAGY, 1530, renters of Haghill,Carntyne, Glasgow
« on: Wednesday 27 January 10 01:08 GMT (UK)  »
I read about your church CD project.  I am not sure what the earliest TODDs you have within those Presbyterian records, but yes there are quite a few I hope that you have.  I do not know the cost of the CD, but I would consider getting one.  Could the Haghill TODDs who immigrated have settled in the earliest settlements near Co. Monaghan?  Would the church CD show the ones who removed to County Down and America...Hope springs eternal.

I noted today that there are more GRAY references than I noted in my earlier post.  George GRAY and Christaine ARMOR, his spouse [Doc A 9. Pg 179 Barony of Glasgow AD 1564 as specified on pg 94 of Geoffrey Todd's papers, Mitchell Lib, Glasgow].  An ARMOR married an early County Down TODD - I am only viewing a detailed typed abstract/report by Geoffrey Todd, 1968, not the original papers.

A Charles GRAY, merchant, and his burial plot [on pg 118 of Geoffrey Todd's papers] are adjacent to plots owned by James ARMOUR, merchant, and _____ AIKENS, and Robert MARSHALL grandfather of Robert Paterson, tailor in Paisley who conveyed this same MARSHALL plot to George TODD, portioner of Haghill. 

If this group could ultimately tie some pieces together....Could the Robert Marshall name also tie with the Ballymorran, by Killinchy, Co Down Robert MARSHALL & TODD families (abt 1800s-1850s)- wishful speculation here-- but yes this transfer of burial plot document date is 3 Mar 1715, Glasgow [ Doc C. 60, Geoffrey Todd papers, p 118]...

Note that your Co Cavan POLLOCK/POGUE names are also important to me (Glasgow roots), as are all the TODDs--There is also an very early walled Presby colony cemetery with Nesbitt/Todd burials which seems to have vanished...not in Co Down cemetery series...so maybe this too is in the church records...Could your records be the earliest Presby migration from Glasgow area...?  How wonderful of you to tackle the scanning and preservation.  That's tremendous! Thank you!

4
Monaghan / James GRAY, c1597, in TODD of Haghill papers, Mitchell Lib, Glasgow
« on: Tuesday 19 January 10 17:03 GMT (UK)  »
Note that Geoffrey Todd of Banstead, Surrey, in 1968 (working on James Balderston's earlier research on TODD lines) mentions a James Gray the younger in Haghill, near Glasgow and his wife Cristaine Cliddisdaill,1596-98. Original source seems to be Commissarior of Glasgow books. Also a James GRAY senior in Haghill with wife Katharine MAYN is noted, 1597 deed/charter/sasine.  Mitchell Library in Glasgow has Geoffrey Todd's papers, etc.

So if some of the GRAYs and TODDs removed together to now Northern Ireland...

5
Monaghan / Poet David LEMON died 1838 of Ballymorran, Killinchy, Co Down
« on: Saturday 29 August 09 17:49 BST (UK)  »
Yesterday I also made some notes on a different David LEMON, so I guess this alternative David LEMON (died 1838) has to be considered also…given the scenario evolving...

Ros Davies writes that Ballymorran was the “home of poet David Lemon 21 Apr 1838” [source: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PLACENAMES/Ballyhm.htm ]
David LEMON .  Holywood of Ballymaghan; leased a house & small garden in 1863 from Thomas McClure GV . 
David LEMON .  Killinchy of Ballymorran, poet, died 21 Apr 1838 DR .
David LEMON . Killyleagh will probated 1839; executor was J. D. Wilson of Ballygoskin IIW # 38447
John LEMON . Killinchy of Ballymorran; died 16 Jun 1778 aged 21; son of James Lemon; buried Presbyterian graveyard MIs
[source: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/L/LeaLem.htm#lem ]

Was there Presbyterian  migration from _______ Co Down to Co Monaghan and back to Ballymorran, Killinchy, Co Down, ?  There is a land record for a David LEMON, of Ballymorran.   Separately a Robert TODD (b. c. 1806)  family in Ballymorran also had a land record  with a RUSSELL family, as both recorded on microfilm at PRONI, Belfast, County Down, No IRE.  The RUSSELLs of Balloo Killinchy may be tied with the adjacent Ballymorran RUSSELLs, and the SCOTTs of Killinchy… I don’t recall the details offhand…After being kindly driven around Balloo, Ballymorran and Killinchy, County Down, this past spring, the neighborhood is certainly very close together.


6
Monaghan / Walter John LEMON (1849/1883) m Isabella CARVER of Minnesota
« on: Saturday 29 August 09 17:29 BST (UK)  »
It looks like Walter John LEMON is not the right guy-- Rev Agnew wrote that this man married Isabella CARVER, apparently of Minnesota USA and had 5 kids...so, eliminate this one ...and the possible death date of 1883 and birth in 1849 both won't fit either then...

7
Monaghan / Rev. Samuel A. Agnew's papers on TODD/LEMONs of Monaghan
« on: Saturday 29 August 09 16:40 BST (UK)  »
Re: TODD/LEMON farm in Killacronaghan or Killycronaghan, in between Killeevan and Smithborough, County Monaghan, No Ire

Yes, your HALL and ELLIOTT also seem to fit here nicely--It appears as though Walter John LEMON, born 1849 may be the best? candidate for Colin and Elizabeth in Western Australia's line...I am not sure...but see what you think of Rev. Samuel Agnew's papers, extracted below....


RECORDS OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ANDREW TODD COPIED BY REV. SAMUEL A. AGNEW of BETHANY, LEE COUNTY, MISSISSIPPI, USA (and transcribed roughly in part here today by Toddstown, to reply to this message thread at Rootschat, Lemon board, 28 Aug 2009 )

A.  Andrew TODD was born in County Down Ireland,  about 1756
This Andrew TODD died in Laurens District South Carolina USA, 13 July 1843  age about 87 yrs. 
He married first, Sidney WEST and had issue as follows (six TODD kids):
I.   John TODD killed in Battle of Waterloo 1815 had no issue

II.   Mary TODD m David LEMON in 1815 or 1816

a.   Matilda LEMON m.  _____ DUNWOODY and had 10 DUNWOODY kids [intermarried with NICKLES, McCOY, McCRUM]

b.   William LEMON m.  _____ and had issue- 10 LEMON kids
i.   David LEMON
ii.   Wm LEMON
iii.   Thomas LEMON
iv.   John LEMON
v.   Mary Ann LEMON m Thomas HULL/HALL of Lisgane, Smithsborough
vi.   Sarah Jane LEMON m  Robert WILLIAMSON of Coramagen Newbliss
vii.   Isabella LEMON m Joseph ELLOTTE
viii.   Martha LEMON
ix.   Elizabeth LEMON
x.   Margaret LEMON

c.   David LEMON d 9 July 1867 m Martha Jane HETHERINGTON or HETHENUGTON 3 May 1848 in Stonebridge Church Co Monaghan Ireland by Rev Ringland Fisher or Fishar of Raffery or Rattery Killinchy Co Down Ireland and had issue

i.   Walter John LEMON born 1849
ii.   Mary Anne LEMON 1851
iii.   Wm David LEMON 1854 m Minnie WOOST b Mecklenburg Germany 1860
iv.   Letitia Jane LEMON 1856
v.   Harry/Harvey Ringland Kilpatrick LEMON 1858
vi.   Samuel Herbert LEMON 1862
vii.   Thomas LEMON 1867

d.   Isabella LEMON b 1820 d 13 Feb 1884 m. Thomas LEGHORN and had __  issue [intermarried with LAWSON of Lurganboy Drum…]

III.   Richard TODD
IV.   Aaron TODD
V.   Jane West TODD
VI.   Eliza TODD

(Andrew TODD married 2nd, Mary SIMPSON of County Monaghan who died in Laurens, South Carolina USA, 23 Aug 1850 aged about 66 yrs and had issue as follows:  (3 TODD kids with Mary Simpson)

VII.   Samuel Rutherford TODD born 7 Oct 1807  [DNA alignment confirmed, 2009, from this line]
VIII.   Leticia Simpson TODD born 19 Sept 1809  [** line of Rev Samuel AGNEW who preserved this data]
IX.   Margaret Isabella TODD 11 Nov 1812


8
Monaghan / When did John LEMON (b. c1846), son of David LEMON ( d. 1867), die?
« on: Saturday 29 August 09 15:54 BST (UK)  »
After spending all day on this TODD/LEMON inquiry yesterday (who is to get the bill for this?) it seems prudent to ask a couple of important leading questions… This is the Andrew TODD (c1756/1843) born in County Down IRE line of LEMONs in Co Monaghan...

1. When did John LEMON b. c1846, the husband of Harriett Ann WILLIAMSON, die?  Could it be 1883? Is it known?

Eliz3 wrote:
John LEMON of Killacronaghan married Harriet Ann WILLIAMSON on 18th January 1867 at Presbyterian Church, Smithboro, Co. Monaghan.   His father is given as David LEMON while hers is John Williamson of Listillen;  she was just 19 years old.   Marriage was 'By Licence'  - John Elliott. (interesting!)   In presence of Thomas LEMMON and Mary LEMMON.   The later two spelled their names with double m's.

2. What are the full names of any of the known male children of this John LEMON b.c. 1846, son of a David LEMON?  Any Walter names?


I too need help with locating the early TODD/LEMON farm in Killacronaghan or Killycronaghan, in between Killeevan and Smithborough, County Monaghan, No Ire. My interest lies in the early TODD lineage, proof, and sources to sort out the various County Down TODD lines, and to find the missing very early cemetery [not in Prof. Richard S. Jessup Clarke's  excellent 21 volume Gravestone Inscriptions series].  Reverend Samuel A. AGNEW of Bethany, Lee Co., Mississippi wrote of this TODD/LEMON farm in his letters and papers preserved in the Kentucky Historical Society, Frankfort, Kentucky, USA.  One of Rev. Agnew's letters, dated 7 Feb 1898 was addressed to E.T. Helm [Emily TODD Helm] of Elizabethtown, KY. 

In this important letter he carefully writes: "Andrew TODD was married twice: first to Sidney WEST, then to Mary SIMPSON.  He had children by both wives.  His eldest son by his first wife, John TODD was killed at the battle of Waterloo in 1815.  His daughter Mary married a LEMON and remained in Ireland when her father with the remaining children came to America.  She lived on the place that was occupied by her grandfather and father and it is still occupied by her son, William LEMON, who if alive is now a very old man.  It is in Killachronaghan Townland, not far from Smithsboro in Co. Monaghan.  By his last wife Andrew had Samuel Rutherford born in 1807, Letitia Simpson born 1809 and Margaret Isabelle [or Isabella] born in 1811.  My mother, Letitia Simpson Todd married Dr. Enoch AGNEW in 1832 and died Feb 28 1879 in Union Co. Miss and is buried in Bethany burial ground in Lee Co., Miss."  [quickly transcribed in part, today from copy of original obtained, 2008, from Emily Todd Helm file at Ky His Soc.]

This TODD heritage is very important to either align or distinguish away from the early TODD family of Toddstown1 (a townland's nickname) and Toddstown2 (a farm near Ballynasveagh & Glaskerbeg East)- both in County Down, No Ire.  ...snip

9
Monaghan / TODD/LEMON farm in Co Monaghan
« on: Thursday 12 March 09 16:42 GMT (UK)  »
Please post any info to this message thread. Thanks.

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