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arthurk Robert RR Rose was Purser in the RN . I have his full naval record and he didn't go to sea again after the ship he was on HMS Pelican nearly sunk after a huge storm off St Helier in August 1800. He married Ann Walters/Waters in December 1800 and as there is no evidence that he had ever been anywhere near Jersey prior to 1800 it must have been a whirlwind courtship!

Trying to sort these Jersey born children out is proving puzzling. It would seem that my family got all their children baptised privately within days of being born. The exception being John George Rose.

Esther Jane Rose was born 24th May 1813 and was baptised privately on the 26th May. In 1818 when the 3 Rose children were Presented at Church we have Jane Mary Rose recorded as being baptised privately on 30th May 1813. No mention of Esther Jane at all!

So am I dealing with twin girls? One of whom , Esther Jane died young? Or could Robert RR and Ann have decided to change their daughters name and had her rechristened? Could you even do that? What am asking is could Esther Jane and Jane Mary be the same baby?

Jerripedia also have the birth of Robert Richmond Rose in 1809 at St Helier to my couple. Still a lot of sorting out to do!

Does anyone know what the term " Presented at Church" means? Is it like Confirmation? My enquiry is about the Church of England in Jersey.

Three of my Rose family's children were baptised privately as babies and all three appear in the Parish records as being " Presented at Church" on the same day, 18th October 1818. They would have been aged 16, 11 and 8 on this date.

Trouble is one of them , Richmond Paton Rose born 1807, I have as dying as a baby. Certainly there is a burial for a Richmond Rose in 1807. Does this new discovery mean he didn't die at all but was alive in 1818 to be " presented at church"?

That of course would mean there was another Richmond Rose who was buried in 1807 at St Helier Jersey and that would be a bombshell!!

My Husband is descended from Ann Rose through her son Thomas George Griffith. I'm in Sydney which makes the search for Robert RR Rose's origins even more complicated!

I set out at the beginning to find out what sort of man our RRR Rose was and I think have achieved that at least. He must have been from a middle class merchant type background, given the career he had etc. Definitely not from a working class family. He lost whatever income he did have before his death, this on his own admission in the application form he filled out for the Greenwich School.

I tend to think either he wasn't born in the UK or his birth name wasn't Robert Reginald Richmond Rose! Either of which is entirely possible.

The major focus of my research now is to try and find out what happened to Robert RR and Ann Rose's two children Robert Richmond Rose born 1809 in Jersey and Jane born 1813 Jersey. We now know they were both alive and in London in 1826-28.


Poor Jane seems to have had a real Dickens type experience. There is the birth of a Richmond Levi born in January 1831 at the Marylebone Workhouse, mother Jane Rose , father Charles Levi. It would seem that the baby was illegitimate. The name Richmond was an important one in this Rose family and I really think this is my Jane. I know that Robert RR Rose had lost all his money with his newspaper venture but I don't think things could be that bad that his daughter would have ended up in the Workhouse! Maybe she was thrown out for getting pregnant?

Anyway the baby seems to have died in August 1831 as Richmond Rose in Lambeth. Poor little thing. What happened to Jane after all of this is the question.

There are far too many Robert Roses around in London to trace our Robert Richmond especially as he doesn't seem to have obligingly have used the Richmond part of his name! Not being able to find either a death or a marriage for him is frustrating.

Also Robertine Buton  appears as Roberteen Buton in the 1851 census, living in Marylebone. Right above her on the census, living next door in other words, is an Edward Rose. Edward was a Lady's shoe maker and was born in Clerkenwell. This could be nothing more than a coincidence, even if it is a big one!

 Have never found a marriage for Robert R R Rose and Maria Todd only the reading of the banns in 1799. At the time Robert has received his Warrant and been assigned as Purser to HMS Pelican and was waiting for his ship to come in ,literally. The Pelican was in Jamaica for most of 1799.

 He definitely married Ann Waters in St Helier Jersey in December 1800. The interesting thing is Ann was a local Jersey girl born and bred and looking at our Robert's Naval career and the ships he was on it is hard to see how he could have spent any time at all in Jersey in 1800. The Pelican arrived in Jersey in August 1800 and he married Ann in December. Pretty quick going!!

I would bet money that he DID marry Maria Todd in 1799 and his " marriage" to Ann Waters was some sort of shotgun affair. Maybe he was the atypical sailor with a wife in every port!