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Messages - dayvida

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1
Kent / Re: SISSINGHURST CASTLE - ORIGINS OF?
« on: Wednesday 16 November 11 03:20 GMT (UK)  »
I did run across an artist's rendering of the old Barham hall at Sissinghurst, and will try to run it down.  Can you outline for me your descent from John Berham/Barham "the Ironmaster" & Thomasine?  I'll need to run to my notes on that group--which largely rely on Fitzgerald-Uniacke's long piece in the Sussex Archaeological Collection Vol. 56.  It was mainly focused on the Barhams at Great Shoesmiths in E. Sussex, descended from Iron John.  While in E. Sussex, we did the Wadhurst Walk, about a 4 mile loop around Wadhurst village, which took us right up to Shoesmiths.  Took a couple of nice photos of the house and surrounding farm, and have tried to attach one below--sadly its a 10Mb image and exceeds the limit.  I can email it to you as an attachment if you like.  Also visited nearby Bayham Abbey, from where you can see the forge sites operated by the Barhams along the iron seam that runs through that part of Sussex, between Frant, Lamberhurst, and Wadhurst.  The church in Wadhurst has something like 20 or so iron tomb slabs, many for the Barhams, and more than any other church in England.  The old manor at Great Buttes--home of John the Ironmaster--is long gone, though the name applies to a not-so-great house on the same site between Wadhurst and Lamberhurst.

John and Thomasine would have been 12th gr-grandparents.  My descent up to the trans-Atlantic "jump":

John Berham==Thomasine __?

Thomas Barham of Wadhurst and Boughton Monchelsea, Kent==Mildred Franckelyn Roberts (widow of George Roberts, and d/o Thomas Franckelyn)

Robert Barham Sr. of Boughton Monchelsea, Kent==Susanna Sare, d/o Thomas Sare of Norton, Faversham, Kent

Robert Barham Jr. of Boughton Monchelsea, Kent, and Holborn, Middlesex, London==Katherine Filmer, d/o of Sir Edward Filmer of East Sutton, Kent

Charles Barham of Boughton Monchelsea, Kent, and Holborn, Middlesex, London>>>>>to Virginia ca. 1653, planter, militia captain, sheriff for Surry Co., VA.  Removed late in life to James City Co.  His Surry plantation lay about 6 miles south of Jamestown, on the south shore of the James River and about 4 miles downriver.

Oh...BTW...."dayvida" is just a contraction of David A.--first name and middle initial.  Got into the habit of using that since my AOL days.

From Charles, the line continues to my maternal grandmother, Myrah Hunter Barham of Sussex Co., VA (1885-1969)

2
Kent / Re: SISSINGHURST CASTLE - ORIGINS OF?
« on: Tuesday 15 November 11 01:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hope you're still pursuing the Barham/Sissinghurst connection.  As to what remains from the Barhams' tenure on the property, Baker tore down the old medieval Barham manor, reserving the brick for his "new" construction.  If you visit Sissinghurst today, note the trademark gatehouse towers.  The brick utilized for this structure was all that remained of the Barham castle.  The site of the old manor is the open field that's just beyond the water garden at the opposite end of the main grounds from the gatehouse.  This was pointed out to me during a visit there in May of this year.  If you make it there, be sure to visit nearby Cranbrook, where you can see the Barham arms incised on the tower at the front of the church.  You'll see the same fess used at Barham village, south of Canterbury and site of the first Barham Court, as well as at the church at Wadhurst, E. Sussex, Barham Court at Teston west of Maidstone, and at Chillington Manor (now the town museum) in Maidstone proper.  All related branches of the same Fitz Urse/de Bereham/Berham/Barham family.  I descend from the "cadet" line settled at Wadhurst, whose representative Thomas Barham--son of John Berham 'the Ironmaster of Woodlandes and Buttes" near Wadhurst--settled at Boughton Monchelsey, Kent s/o Maidstone around 1560, and died there in 1595.

3
London & Middlesex Lookup Requests / BARHAM and WHICHER of St. Alfege Greenwich
« on: Thursday 15 September 11 17:59 BST (UK)  »
While BARHAM is not a common surname, it was and is by no means rare, and did crop up a good bit in London, Kent, and Sussex--their epicenters were the Canterbury and Maidstone areas, all rather thoroughly researched but not always followed up in detail, re-checked and revised.  My own group was primarily Boughton Monchelsea, Kent, with a few lines going into metro London.  Of interest here was Drew/Drue/Drugo Barham, youngest son of Robert Barham Sr. and Susanna Sare, apprenticed to George Preston, grocer of London, by 1630, and by 1633 was known himself as "grocer."  He appears that way in the marriage register for St. Alfege Greenwich on 21 April 1636, at his marriage to Elizabeth Whicher.  This marriage, along with others from St. Alfege, were extracted for antiquarian compendia over the years, and more recently have been indexed as images through the LMA partnership with Ancestry.

My immediate interest is to link this marriage to the other St. Alfege Barham groups that show up by the end of the 17th and continue into the 18th century, as reported by the LMA/Ancestry project, which seem to begin with a Richard & Elizabeth Barham, and continue with their children and grandchildren; or, to disprove any such linkage.  The indexing tells me nothing as to Drue Barham's final disposition, whether Elizabeth survived him, or of any children baptised.  If anyone has great familiarity with this parish, and/or with either family as constituted there, I'd welcome the help.  Drue/Drew/Drugo Barham was baptised 27 August 1612 at Boughton Monchelsea, Kent.  His only mentions found to-date have been via the 1619 Visitation of Kent, a running chancery suit brought by his elder brother in light of their father's death, and the above-detailed marriage to Elizabeth Whicher.  Drue is listed as being of St. Clement Danes, but research at the LMA has not turned up any other relevant St. Clements Barham notations.  Elizabeth was reported as being "of the parish [St. Alfege]" in the marriage register.  A few years prior, a George Whicher buried spouse Joan Whicher, and George himself seems to have died in 1636, the same year as Elizabeth's marriage.  Of the Whichers, I know next to nothing.

Again, thanks for any help or suggestions--including other chat forums at Rootschat that may be more appropriate to the query.

David in Richmond, VA

4
Oxfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Thomas & Elizabeth MORTON, buried at Wroxton, Banbury..register text available?
« on: Thursday 15 September 11 13:08 BST (UK)  »
Many thanks for that.  I'm learning that several lines in and out of this union have an "epicenter" in that portion of Oxon, Warw., Northants and Worcs. that butt up against each other, whether they were titled or not.  I'll give that page a go.

5
Oxfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Thomas & Elizabeth MORTON, buried at Wroxton, Banbury..register text available?
« on: Thursday 08 September 11 12:22 BST (UK)  »
Hi Debbie...

Many thanks for looking into this.  I'm starting to think that Thomas Morton was another wealthy London merchant--that seems to be the world that Elizabeth Finett operated in.  It seems certain now that they had removed from London and were squarely in Banbury in their final years.  No doubt they had a sizable estate, so the absence of wills is still puzzling.  I'll have to continue to turn over rocks, and see what's lurking.  Perhaps an Inquisition PM or a chancery challenge will come to light.

Sometimes you just can't dot every "I" and cross every "T."  And, it's equally valuable to know what's been checked and hasn't proved fruitful.  I've posted enough about him--and Elizabeth--that perhaps the query string will catch the eye of another chatter or researcher who's got him in one of their groups, and can flesh him out.  And, you never know what might develop from the Martha Morton you turned up! :)

David

6
Oxfordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Thomas & Elizabeth MORTON, buried at Wroxton, Banbury..register text available?
« on: Wednesday 07 September 11 18:48 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Debbie.  It was that bit which was probably, as you said, attached to the register itself:

Text:    13 May 1704 Morton Thomas, esq., buryed at Worxton
Book:    Delivered into Court 2nd May, 11 Charles I.
Collection:    Oxford: Banbury - Baptism and Burial Register, 1653-1723

That's what threw me--your extra pair of eyes made the difference.  Beyond that, I'd also want the register entry for Elizabeth.  You'd think she'd show up the same way, but doesn't....as far as I can tell (please correct me if you can make her appear!).  Additionally, not all line info from Ancestry database sources makes it into their citations--they're good leads but not always stopping points--so I'm glad you checked the Banbury book for me. 

Next step is to run down those wills for Thomas & Elizabeth.  Thanks again! :)


7
Oxfordshire Lookup Requests / Thomas & Elizabeth MORTON, buried at Wroxton, Banbury..register text available?
« on: Wednesday 07 September 11 16:34 BST (UK)  »
I'm hoping a chatter has access to Banbury area burials in book form.  I'm interested in the register listings for the church at Wroxton, and the burials for Thomas Morton d. 1704 and his wife Elizabeth Morton d. 1705.  There's a teaser quote on Ancestry from the Banbury burials book regarding Thomas Morton, which may be a register reference to Honors dating from Charles II.  The Mortons are buried at Wroxton due to Elizabeth's parentage--Sir John Finett and Dame Jane Wentworth Finett.  The surveyed church memorials text reads thus:


"The three following epitaphs are to the memory of the descendants of Anne, Countess of Downe, by her first husband, Henry Lord Wentworth.

1. "Here lyeth buried the body of Dame JANE FINET, only daughter of Henry Lord Wentworth, Baron of Nettlested, in the covnty of Suffolke, and widdow of Sir John Finet, master of the ceremonys to King Charles. She departed this life the 18th day of July, 1652, and left behind her one sonn and five daughters."

2. "Here lyeth the body of THOMAS MORTON, esq., who departed this life the 10th day of May, 1704, in the 75th year of his age. Here lyeth the body of ELIZABETH MORTON, the wife of Thomas Morton, esq., who' departed this life the 2d day of Feb. in the year of our Lord 1705, and in the 83 year of her age. She was daughter of Sir John Finet, master of the ceremonys, and grand-daughter to Anne, Countesse of Down. Interred in this place."

3. "Here lyeth the body of FINETA FINET, who departed this life the 4th day of March, in the year of our Lord 1709. And in the 84th year of her age. She was daughter of Sir John Finet, master of the ceremonys, and grand-daughter to Ann, Countesse of Down. Interred in this place."

The Mortons' interrment at Wroxton was due to Elizabeth's descendancy from Henry Lord Wentworth's wife Anne, her family seat being Wroxton Abbey.  Thomas Morton was the third husband of Elizabeth Finett (second husband John RUSHOUT began a baronetcy and string of Worcester MPs--Elizabeth was his second wife, and no issue by her), and while I know a great deal about her, I know very little about him.  I'm still hunting for their marriage in Westminster/London, and believe it to date to ca. 1655.  My tie to Elizabeth is via her only child born to first husband James GODSCHALKE (m. 1638-9), son of Flemish cloth merchant Joos Godschalke of London and Essex.  The son was John Godschalke, knighted in June 1660 at the age of 20/21, and married to Anne FILMER of East Sutton, Kent, in mid-1659.  Young Sir John was murdered at the Golden Fleece Tavern in Covent Garden in November 1660, leaving widow Dame Anne with one 2 month old son, John, and pregnant with daughter Anne Godschalke, born August 1661 and later married to Sir Thomas SAMWELL, from whom descend the Samwell baronetcy of Upton, Northants.  It's an interesting hard-to-make-up saga (the murder chronicled by 3 different Restoration diarists, including Pepys), with a couple of loose ends at this point, including finding out just who Thomas Morton was! 

Also on the bucket list are wills for both Thomas and Elizabeth, which so far have been elusive; they're not in the PCC, and I don't know what other jurisdiction might have had them, save the appropriate Archdeaconry or Consistory Court for their residence at death.  Don't want to be too greedy though---I'd be happy with full quotes from the Banbury burials and the Wroxton interments mentioned above.  As an aside, my only blood connection to the above was Anne Filmer Godschalke, d-i-l to Elizabeth Morton.  Thanks for any help! :)

David in Richmond, VA

8
Warwickshire / Godschalke/Godscall/etc. of Atherston-on-Stour...? 1600s
« on: Monday 05 September 11 00:10 BST (UK)  »
I'm new to the Warwickshire field, and have an unusual research topic that's led me here.  I'm following up on a baronetage reference for an old Northamptonshire family, the Samwells of Upton.  Thomas Samwell, who became the first baronet in 1675, is referred to as marrying Anne Godschalk, d/o Sir John Godschalk of Atherston-on-Stour (rendered as "Stower" in the reference title), Warwickshire.  She is also named as Sir John's heir.

Online databases for Warwickshire materials have so far netted me zero in confirming a residence of A-on-S for the Godschalks.  And, it gets even more complicated.  KB listings for Restoration knighthoods confirm that John Godschalke was knighted on 24 June 1660.  The listing there suggests that he was of "Aldeston, Worcester."  Now, there is no "Aldeston" in Worcestershire, but there is an "Aldington."  No joy there either for the Godschalkes.  There is also an Alderton, Wiltshire....but I don't think roads lead there.

In addition to Sir John's date of knighthood, I do know that his PCC will was written in the Summer of 1659, and names his wife Anne, and mother Elizabeth, now married to a Thomas Morton.  The will was probated in late November 1660.  It mentions no children in the body of the will, partially explained by the birth of his only son, John, in August of 1660 (the baptism recorded at St. Margaret's Westminster).  The St. M's registers make no other mention of a Godschalke baptism up to that point (the shut-off date is 1660 for this volume--later volumes have not been seen.  To make things even more interesting, Sir John met an untimely end:  he was murdered at the Golden Fleece Tavern in November 1660, an event covered by three different Restoration diarists, including Pepys.  Dame Anne Godschalke, widow of Sir John, and born Anne Filmer--daughter of Sir Robert Filmer of East Sutton, Kent (author of "Patriarcha"), continued to live in London up until the 1670s, at which time she sold her property leases to William Ashburnham of the Royal Household (the Godschalkes seem to have lived in the Westminster Abbey precincts), and moved back to her childhood home of East Sutton Park in Kent.  Her will was written in June of 1676, and proved in February of 1677/8.  She is buried with her Filmer family at Sts. Peter & Paul, East Sutton.  Her son John Godschalke matriculated at Oxford in 1677, age 16.  It is not known whether he married, but he, like his mother, is buried at East Sutton, and died in November 1683.

I'm thinking that Anne Godschalke, daughter and heir of Sir John, was born after her father's death, perhaps in early 1661.  If the marriage to Thomas Samwell of Upton, Northants happened after 1683, she would have indeed been her father's heir, having survived her brother John.  The referenced history of the Samwell baronet makes no mention of the marriage date.  The PCC will for Thomas Samwell of Upton is dated 1696, and there is none for Anne, suggesting that she either didn't survive him, or else remarried.  One quickly glanced Samwell descendancy on StirNet (before the warning window kicks in and makes you join or else), suggested a burial date of 1690 for Anne, wife of Thomas.  She's credited for being Thomas Samwell's second wife, and having two children by him--perhaps she died of childbirth complications from the second one.  Hard to say.  I've looked in vain for memorial lists for the church at Upton by the manor--some vague descriptions of Samwell memorials, but nothing specific.

So....the best case scenario for making all the above work:  Anne Godschalke lived with her Filmer relatives until the death of her brother and heir John Godschalke Esq. in 1683, and then returned to her father's relatives in Warwickshire, where she was shortly married.  Another possiblity is that Thomas Samwell was living in London, and it was there that the match was made, as the Filmer connections in the capital were plentiful.  The burning question, then, is whether there were Godschalke relatives in Warwickshire before and during the Restoration timeframe--roughly from Charles 1 through the end of Charles II.

As a finding aid, Godschalke has been rendered as Godschalk, Godschall, Godshall, Godscall....etc.  The Flemish-born merchant dynasty of the same name--and same period--in London, is not connected....as far as I can tell.  Any help with the above is most welcome.....hopefully I have enough details to ring a bell for someone!

9
Warwickshire / Godschalke/Godscall/etc. of Atherston-on-Stour...? 1600s
« on: Sunday 04 September 11 23:12 BST (UK)  »
I'm new to the Warwickshire field, and have an unusual research topic that's led me here.  I'm following up on a baronetage reference for an old Northamptonshire family, the Samwells of Upton.  Thomas Samwell, who became the first baronet in 1675, is referred to as marrying Anne Godschalk, d/o Sir John Godschalk of Atherston-on-Stour (rendered as "Stower" in the reference title), Warwickshire.  She is also named as Sir John's heir.

Online databases for Warwickshire materials have so far netted me zero in confirming a residence of A-on-S for the Godschalks.  And, it gets even more complicated.  KB listings for Restoration knighthoods confirm that John Godschalke was knighted on 24 June 1660.  The listing there suggests that he was of "Aldeston, Worcester."  Now, there is no "Aldeston" in Worcestershire, but there is an "Aldington."  No joy there either for the Godschalkes.  There is also an Alderton, Wiltshire....but I don't think roads lead there.

In addition to Sir John's date of knighthood, I do know that his PCC will was written in the Summer of 1659, and names his wife Anne, and mother Elizabeth, now married to a Thomas Morton.  The will was probated in late November 1660.  It mentions no children in the body of the will, partially explained by the birth of his only son, John, in August of 1660 (the baptism recorded at St. Margaret's Westminster.  The St. M's registers make no other mention of a Godschalke baptism up to that point (the shut-off date is 1660 for this volume--later volumes have not been seen.  To make things even more interesting, Sir John met an untimely end:  he was murdered at the Golden Fleece Tavern in November 1660, an event covered by three different Restoration diarists, including Pepys.  Dame Anne Godschalke, widow of Sir John, and born Anne Filmer--daughter of Sir Robert Filmer of East Sutton, Kent (author of "Patriarcha"), continued to live in London up until the 1670s, at which time she sold her property leases to William Ashburnham of the Royal Household (the Godschalkes seem to have lived in the Westminster Abbey precincts), and moved back to her childhood home of East Sutton Park in Kent.  Her will was written in June of 1676, and proved in February of 1677/8.  She is buried with her Filmer family at Sts. Peter & Paul, East Sutton.  Her son John Godschalke matriculated at Oxford in 1677, age 16.  It is not known whether he married, but he, like his mother, is buried at East Sutton, and died in November 1683.

I'm thinking that Anne Godschalke, daughter and heir of Sir John, was born after her father's death, perhaps in early 1661.  If the marriage to Thomas Samwell of Upton, Northants happened after 1683, she would have indeed been her father's heir.  The referenced history of the Samwell baronet makes no mention of the marriage date.  The PCC will for Thomas Samwell of Upton is dated 1696, and there is none for Anne, suggesting that she either didn't survive him, or else remarried.  One quickly glanced Samwell descendancy on StirNet (before the warning window kicks in and makes you join or else), suggested a burial date of 1690 for Anne, wife of Thomas.

So....the best case scenario for making all the above work:  Anne Godschalke lived with her Filmer relatives until the death of her brother and heir John Godschalke Esq. in 1683, and then returned to her father's relatives in Warwickshire, where she was shortly married.  Another possiblity is that Thomas Samwell was living in London, and it was there that the match was made, as the Filmer connections in the capital were plentiful.  The burning question, then, is whether there were Godschalke relatives in Warwickshire before and during the Restoration timeframe--roughly from Charles 1 through the end of Charles II.

As a finding aid, Godschalke has been rendered as Godschalk, Godschall, Godshall, Godscall....etc.  The Flemish-born merchant dynasty of the same name--and same period--in London, is not connected....as far as I can tell.  Any help with the above is most welcome.....hopefully I have enough details to ring a bell for someone!

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