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Messages - idlecat

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1
Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Thursday 04 July 24 17:53 BST (UK)  »
Today I was dipping into Ď my ancestors were Gypsies  Ďand came across a section under military service
Charles joined Bedfordshire Militia
Interesting he states that Charles Ď brother James joined the Royal East Middlesex militia and died at Waterloo. Reference Lt. Col. C P Hawkes Ď Gypsy blooodí in Geneologist mag. Vol 6 no. 9 p.395

2
Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Friday 21 June 24 15:48 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Shane, Iíve attached the death cert. Itís too young to be our Charles.
I knew about Toby smiths execution but it was mortifying reading the file. I think he married just days before his death and yes he was related to the Macklins. His sister Viraminta b. 1768 married Marks William Curtis, son of William Curtis from whom he stole the mare . William is my 5x g gfather. His daughter Sarah had a daughter Elizabeth with Charles Macklin 1778 .
What a tangled webb.
This is a useful tool to peruse if you have time to spare http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/Gypsyindex1.html

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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Friday 21 June 24 12:47 BST (UK)  »
Interesting. I have the Welches in my tree, William, Mary, Sarah John Priscilla and James. Parents Thomas Welch 1766 and Mary Shaw 1768. Iíve been recently working on this family but I hadnít spotted that Saney was married to this John Welch.  Thanks for the info Ö more to work on.
Sophia Haines was not I think born in Wiltshire in 1780. Mother Elizabeth. I have a death for this poor little soul in August of the same year to Elizabeth mother.
Itís more ikely that she belongs to the  Huntingdonshire Haines/ Haynes Ö a family which I have come across elsewhere.
Iíve had the death cert back for Charles Maclean 1800 who has been attributed to death in Hemel Hempstead 1839. This cert is for a 27 year old . I canít decipher profession looks like Type founder.
Iíll do more research this weekend whilst I am away again.

4
Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Monday 17 June 24 11:33 BST (UK)  »
Iíve had the copy of the death cert for Charles Macklin husband of Sophia. He is commonly recorded as b. 1780 and died 1852 in Buntingford. I suspected this incorrect . The certificate proves it, he was a surgeon and is found on the census. So can discount those dates now.

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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Saturday 15 June 24 16:10 BST (UK)  »
Robert Dawson is certainly a person of note. Is this recent or may he not still be around?
Iíve been trawling through the Regimental Records of the Bedfordshire Militia and came across one or two interesting things.
I wondered why the recruits from this locality were recruited and paid off after a short time. It seems that there had been a lot of trouble within the Regiment through disobedience.. wearing their best uniforms when told not to ( it was winter and cold and the 2nd best were worn out). Soldiers and officers were court martialled and dismissed so recruits were rounded up urgently.


THE BEDFORDSHIRE MILITIA.
51
In searching for information respecting my own Regiment during these times, I came across an account of the execution of two deserters, which I think is worthy of record.
"On the 20th June 1800, two of the York Hussars (Yeomanry) were shot on Bincombe Down, near Weymouth, pursuant to sentence of Court-Martial, for desertion and cutting a boat out of Weymouth Harbour, with the intention of deserting to France; they however, landed by mistake in Guernsey, where they were arrested and secured.
"The regiments in camp were drawn up (viz. the Greys, Rifle Corps, Stafford, Berkshire, and North Devon Militia.
"They came on the ground in a mourning coach, accompanied by two Priests. After going along the front, they went to the centre, where they were allowed twenty minutes for prayer; they were then shot at by a guard of twenty-four men, they dropped instantly, and expired without a groan.
"The men wheeled in sections, and marched past the bodies in slow time."
In May 1800 we find the Regiment, after having been recruited in the County during the winter, once more upon the march, having received orders to proceed to the west of England; and early in that month it marched by Higham Ferrers, Kettering, Harborough, Atherstone, Lichfield, to Stafford, where it appears to have only halted for a week, when it marched, via Wolverhampton, Kidderminster, Worcester, Tewkesbury, Cheltenham, Gloucester, Newport, Bristol, Wells, and Bridgewater to Taunton, where it was

1800.
The Regiment remained at Bedford until May 1800, and had a detachment at Dunstable.
I may here state for the information of many who are not aware of the magnitude of the force employed at the time we write of, that the number of troops in Ireland at the end of 1800 was :ó
Regulars
Militia
Yeomanry.

45,839.
27,104.

53,557.
The total military establishment of the United Kingdom (exclusive of the marine establishment 100,000 men, and the Volunteers) was 317,952 men.

stationed until September. It left Taunton at the end of September, and proceeded by Honiton and Exeter to Ashburton and Newton Bushell, where it was quartered forabout a month, when it was ordered to Plymouth, where it arrived in the middle of October. It did garrison duty in this Town during the winter of 1800, and the Civil Authorities publicly complimented the Regiment upon its discipline and good conduct upon the occasion of its being called out to preserve order during a large fire.Ē

                              óóóóóóóóóóó
Itís also been a puzzle why Charles McLean named his son b. 1800 ( the infant ) Charles Maclean Grey .
Itís probable that he named him after the commander in chief Sir Charles Grey Ö Iíve another soldier who named his son Shirley after another General at Waterloo.

" Regimental Orders. - The general order of this day is a pretty strong proof that the Commander-in-Chief, Sir Charles Grey, is determined that every manner of Hub ordination shall be kept up in the Southern District, id the Colonel ia equally determined to execute his ist and power by making an example of the first person at may disgrace his regiment.
"He cannot avoid adding that he has reason to caution every good man in the regiment from being led astray by the persuasion or example of bad men ; and as they love their own reputation, honour, and happiness, they will avoid associating with every man of this description ; but to avoid him as they would a pestilence, for otherwise it will be sure to bring down upon them the most sure and exemplary punishment.


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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Saturday 15 June 24 10:48 BST (UK)  »
Good morning The Bedford  militia is another fascinating document , I can see an entry of a referenced to Sophia Macleanís Child but difficulty in reading what comes at the end then 4/8 4s 8d
The Charles Maclean entry From Infantry March 10 1800 to April 12. 1/2. 1s 2d
I have had a search of Bedfordshire militia records and they are scarce. There must be more somewhere Ö needs more research. I have a great interest myself in anything military.
Mrs Macdonaldís letter from Gypsy Lore was surprising Ö his lack of knowledge of the Macklins Ö maybe things have moved on from there. Interesting what was said about Silence Biggleswade being deaf. I have another Silence Bruntbin my tree and on the 1851 census she has indeed ticked the box at the end for deaf, blind and imbecile .
Thank you for sharing all of your notes with me, Iíll go through them and see if thereís anything I can add.
 Patti

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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Saturday 15 June 24 09:34 BST (UK)  »
Wow, thank you so much Shane, Iím just ploughing through them.. Iíve sent off for some birth certs which I never had so they may turn something up. Will get back to you later Ö and thanks again, amazing. Thanks again Patti

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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Tuesday 11 June 24 10:32 BST (UK)  »
Morning Shane, amazingly you saw my post and responded immediately. Itís good to talk to you. My family descendants travelled around Bedfordshire, Oxfordshire Cambridge Northants and Warwickshire , I was in this part of the world last week where both of my children live now and as I drove near to the places I recognised from the bmdís census and gaol sentences😀 I felt a deep sense of belonging and nostalgia. I would like to spend more time visiting the old stopping places as Damian le Bas did in his book but time is running outÖ. I didnít know about Charlesís connection with the military, and if you could root out the old stuff that you had Iíll try to research that. I have another old relly William Green from Lutterworth who wrote a book about Waterloo which is fascinating .
I hope you get your dna results soon, it opens up a whole new world and that will be the end of life as you know it.
Upload to GEDMATCH for the really interesting stuff. Itís great to get confirmation of what weíre just Grannies tales. I discovered that the rumour that we had Russian aristocracy in the family turned out to be true. Another cousin of Gg Hyde married Count Tolstoy whose father had been Chamberlain to Nicholas II . Their son Dimitri was smuggled out of Russia on the secret boat that King George sent along with some of the Royal family ( now denied).  His Grandaughter Countess Alexandra Tolstoy is a well known broadcaster and infamous by being married to Sergei Pugachev. I bet she doesnít know she has Gypsy blood.
Itís a shame your pic  went missing, Iíve retrieved a copy from Facebook I hope you wonít mind me using it. Your post seems to have revived a bit more interest . Look  forward to reading more from you.
Patti

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Travelling People / Re: McLEAN/McCLAN
« on: Monday 10 June 24 12:11 BST (UK)  »
Hi Shane, bit late to this discussion but found it very interesting. I am descended from Charles Macklin
1745 Cambridgeshire and Sarah Smith 1757.Grandchester Huntingtonshire They were both from travelling Gypsy families. There were 2 sons who are traceable, my  4 x ggf  Charles Macklin known as the Gypsy fiddler born b. 1778  and Samuel 1788 who married Theodoria Harding daughter of Will Harding and Mary Howe father of James Macklin 1821 who married Rhoda Gaze and is your line
Charles married Sophia Haines in 1799 Ö parents not found but it's her name Sophia which carries through every generation ( my grandaughter is Sophie) . Charles also had a daughter with Sarah Curtis b. 1772 named Elizabeth .Sarah  married Thomas Thorogood in 1792 and in 1795 Elizabeth was baptised naming Thomas as her father.  Elizabeth married my 3x ggfather Joseph Hyde in 1814 and then they settle in Frankton Warwickshire Ö a favoured Gypsy stopping place. These facts are now confirmed with many dna matches  with Charles and Sophiaís offspring Ö many being within the Loveridge, Gray, Draper travelling families . 
I grew up being told about the stories in my fatherís family and I so wish that he had known that it was all true.  He played a fiddle ( handed down) and squeeze boxes and his father used to go to entertain the crowds at half time at the local FC club in Leicester. Several generations of the family still worked as door to door travelling salesman until very recently as did their forefathers. Itís all very fascinating . Someone earlier talked about the Scottish connection. My dna gives me a 14% Scandinavian marker( Norway)  and a fair amount of Scottish. My dna matches seem to have the same. Itís likely that our family came to Scotland in 17 century but thereís no way of knowing yet

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