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Messages - AMBLY

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Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: help deciphering place of burial
« on: Saturday 18 May 19 15:33 BST (UK)  »
Are you able to give a bit of context to that image?

Is the sister is law's surname Wingham or Wringham? Died 1925?

And the word after that (looks like Cumming G.S to me)  is where she is buried?

Do you have any idea of the country at least?


The Common Room / Re: Missing marriage?
« on: Saturday 18 May 19 13:58 BST (UK)  »
As Goldie61 you have noted, this search for Thomas has raised some interesting information about him, his Service record rounding out his story, flesh on bones.....yes I agree, we go from Census to Census, and think much has stayed the same. But as true for us now, as for then - a lot can happen in those 10 year blocks!

Thomas' Service record shows he was in and payed by, the 1st Battalion of the Grenadier Guards . Looking more closely at his Service records, his second, and last stint in Hospital in London & Woolwich was between 29 Aug and 5 Nov 1890.

Stations of the British Army as at 7 March 1891 - The Grenadier Guards:
1 Btn  - in Dublin
2 Btn - in Bermuda - went there in 1890 for a year, returned 1891
3 Btn - in Chelsea  - had been home since 1885 from Sudan/Cyprus.

So Thomas was most certainly in Dublin at the time of the 1891 Census. The Battalion didn't return to England until December 1891.

Another interesting fact…… by way of being in the 1st Battalion, he was not involved in the so call Grenadier Guards mutinies.

The 2nd Btn  -  'incident' in July 1890. The upshot of this was, the Battallon was exiled to Bermuda - supposedly for 4 years, but were back in England  a year later in 1891.

The 3rd Btn -  incident on 20th April 1891 ( two weeks after the Census). Very interesting reading - especially the 2nd link below - the London public even raised petitions to protest the treatment of the soldiers.

And here is an image of how Thomas Wallis may have looked in various stages, in full colors (he was rose to rank of Sergeant after holding ranks of Lce Corporal and Corporal, before being demoted to Private again.

Thanks Goldie, for raising the opportunity of learning some history  ;D


The Common Room / Re: Missing marriage?
« on: Saturday 18 May 19 05:43 BST (UK)  »
Hi Goldie


The Voila moment!  Nothing like it, hey?

At the very least, Nellie popped back to Derbyshire to birth the children, I suppose. She at least followed him to London to marry.  Being with the Grenadier Guards, he was around Windsor, etc a lot.

Thomas' health was not so good from 1888 to 1892 all whilst in the Army.....a specific ailment, it's all on his Service Record.  If you have access to FindMyPast you should find the record there (Thomas Wallis b 1866 Derbyshire) - but if you have trouble finding it let me know :-)

Edit: Oh sorry, no not Times Newspaper - I meant the times he was in London and Woolwich, was when he was in hospital. In one instance, I think he was initally in London hospital  and transferred to Woolwich Hospital

Also, the Grenadier Guards have their own Hospital in London..... in 1891 there are 5 pages of it. Couldn't see him there  but then, his service record indicated he was discharged from hospital on 5 Nov 1890 and had no further admissions after that (I'll refind and post the co-ordinates for you to have a look).

PS: Thomas' Army Attestation identifies him as Weslyan - so this may be why he doesn't appear in the Parish marriages for St George's, Hanover Square.


The Common Room / Re: Security issues with Ancestry.
« on: Saturday 18 May 19 04:56 BST (UK)  »
A relative of mine parents have been contact by phone claiming to be from Ancestry asking questions

When you say "claiming to be from Ancestry" - do you mean someone who works FOR Ancestry, or someone who said they have a tree or an account with Ancestry or a  DNA test via Ancestry?  Were they asking personal questions about your shared family?  Did the person who called them have a particular accent, or say anything about themselves - or indicate what their objective was?

and also received an email claiming to be from me.

Unless your email account has been hacked, I don't quite understand this - was the email actually a message sent to your relative's parents via email but generated via a messaging forum and had your name on it?  If they were to reply to what they received - what reply address comes up?

It certainly all sounds very fishy, and must be very unsettling for you - but from what you say, I'm not convinced it's an Ancestry security breach. The contacting of yourself by the Australian lady initially, seems all above board - Private trees can be still appear on Ancersty searches with minimal info, enough to reveal a possible connection and Ancestry then suggests the searcher message the Private Tree owner.

Hopefully Rootschatters with more knowledge in these things will be able to help more.


Cumberland / Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« on: Friday 17 May 19 12:45 BST (UK)  »
I believe the identity of George BELL is going to be easily found - that is the father of Fergus, Tom and Horace.

In absence of any other evidence as proof, you'd need the Birth Certs of those boys. Partly to determine if the father of them all is George BELL - and the same George BELL -  and where they were born?

And the death cert of
George BELL, age 58 - SEP QTR 1890 Brampton (born abt 1832)
To see who the informant was and to determine if he is the father of the 3 children, and if he is the man in the  1881 Census below:

Recalling that Hannah's first 3 BELL sons Fergus, Tom & Horace were all born Hayton  (according to Census 1891). This looks like the right George BELL, in 1881 to match the man who died 1890 - and I believe, the father of Hannah's children:

In 1881 CENSUS: At Edmond Castle Lodge, Hayton
Head: George BELL 49, Widower, General Labourer, General Labourer, b Hayton
Dau: Elizabeth BELL, 24, unm, Domestic Servant, b Hayton
Visitor: John STEEL 60, unm, Joiner, b Wesnal, Cumberland

You can follow this man all the way back to 1841, where he is in Hayton with his parents, John BELL and Elizabeth nee STEEL. The maiden name of Elizabeth is from the GRO Birth of her two youngest children.

And there's the rub.   You can probably resolve who George BELL is, BUT:

If he is the man who died mid 1890 - he cannot be the father of Harvey Foster BELL birth registered Mar Qtr 1893 - unless for some reason Harvey's actual birth was no later than around March to June 1891 and he was registered very late in late 1892 to early 1893.

What have you got that mention's George BELL by name? A Birth Cert  maybe?


Cumberland / Re: George Bell Harvey bell /Joseph Wardman
« on: Friday 17 May 19 11:31 BST (UK)  »
Any mention of George bells parents names ?

Hi Terry,

Just has a re-read of the thread to re-gather thoughts...... ;D

Any trace of George BELL himself would have to be first, to have any hope of finding the step back to his parents.

The first issue is the timeline:

In 1881 CENSUS Hannah FOSTER age 15 at home with father.
In 1885 BIRTH Son Fergus William BELL
In 1886 BIRTH Son Tom Guy BELL
In 1888 BIRTH Horace Frank BELL
In 1891 CENSUS, 4th April: Hannah, is listed as a widow, aged 25
In 1893 BIRTH Harvey Foster BELL  (maybe born later 1892 Qtr4)


The Common Room / Re: Missing marriage?
« on: Friday 17 May 19 10:15 BST (UK)  »
The daughter Maria Georgina's baptism has all the clues you need  ;D

Baptised 24 Sep 1892 in the Parish Church of Ironville with Codnor Park
Father: Thomas WALLIS, Soldier
Mother: Nellie WALLIS
Abode: London

Thomas  has a Service record:

* Thomas WALLIS age 18 years and 6 months.
* Army Number: 9550
* Joined Grenadier Guards at London on 7 Nov 1884
* Born Codnor Park, Alfreton
* Labourer
* Not Married
* Has never lived outside of his father's house.
* Had previous militia service 3rd  Btn Derbyshire Regiment
* 5',8" tall, Fresh complexion, grey eyes, brown hair.
* Religion Weslyan
* He was appointed, promoted to Cpl then Sgt and extended his 7 years service to 12 year with Colors. Then around May 1892, he went off the rails  for that whole year- absent, jailed, trialed, convicted and demoted and so on. Finally discharged 4 Nov 1896. He served the whole time at  "Home" - ie in the UK.
NOK was listed as his father, Thomas . It was never changed to his wife's name, nor any notation regards dependant children.

In 1891, he was probably somewhere in London  or in a hospital in Woolwich, or in Dublin - more likely the latter. It looks like the London & the Woolwich times were all around April 1890 whilst he was being treated for his.....ailment. By 5 Dec 1891, he was in London again, after Dublin.

Cheers  :)

Lanarkshire / Re: nathaniel family
« on: Tuesday 14 May 19 00:39 BST (UK)  »
There's more information than you can poke a a stick at freely available on Family Search:

Mother/Wife  Rebecca's death 1941 in Ohio

Father/husband  John died 1956, buried in same cemetery as son Thomas.


Lanarkshire / Re: nathaniel family
« on: Tuesday 14 May 19 00:31 BST (UK)  »
Hi Ann,

The family ended up in the USA.  John & Rebecca & 2 of the children are in Hancock, West Virginia in 1940:

Margaret is not with them.

Thomas Porteous NATHANIEL born 18 April 1914 Rutherglen
Was naturalised as a US Citizen in 1940 in Hancock, West Virginia, United States
He died 19 Sep 1974 and is buried in Ohio USA


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