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Messages - Ferfinds

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1
Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / Re: John Olman 1851 census recorded as John Hallman/Hollman -occupation?
« on: Thursday 03 January 19 12:37 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: BumbleB on Thursday 03 January 19 12:13 GMT (UK)
The Yorkshire Dictionary gives this for "hind" - farm worker:  foreman on a farm (OE hine).

A Dictionary of Old Trades gives "hind" - farm labourer.

Thank you very much for this. So it is "hind". The Yorkshire Dictionary definition would be the one. The place of the census was Nunkeeling in Yorkshire.

Jennifer

2
Yorkshire (East Riding & York) / John Olman 1851 census recorded as John Hallman/Hollman -occupation?
« on: Thursday 03 January 19 11:44 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all.
I am trying to decipher the occupation on the entry for John Hallman/Hollman on the attached 1851 census page image.
The man's name is actually Olman but has been recorded as what looks to me like Hallman, but Findmypast and FamilySearch render it Hollman. Family Search and MyHeritage render the occupation as "hind of 256 acres employing 5 ag labs" It is the first word that confounds them and me. Obviously "hind" is not right. To me it looks like "Fhnd" and if so would it be "farmhand"?
In the 1861 census his occupation is "cow keeper".
Jennifer

3
Australia / Re: John Bell BENNETT
« on: Friday 27 May 16 01:19 BST (UK)  »
I have recently found a likely John Bennett in the Ireland Catholic Parish records:

Baptism date    12 Jun 1833
Residence    Courtmacsherry
Parish    Lislee
Diocese    Cork and Ross
County    Cork
Country    Ireland
Father's first name(s)    Wm
Father's last name    Bennett
Mother's first name(s)    Mary
Mother's last name    Bell

http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000634647#page/416/mode/1up

4
Moray (Elginshire) / Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Tuesday 26 April 16 01:53 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: Forfarian on Monday 25 April 16 16:52 BST (UK)
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I wonder whether the inconsistencies could be explained by mistranscription by the enumerator who transferred the details from the household schedule to the enumeration book?

Thanks for your thoughts and the links.

I didn't know there was a step from the household schedule to the enumeration book. I guess that left the way open to some errors. And I also guess that the household schedules were not kept.

5
Moray (Elginshire) / Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Monday 25 April 16 15:21 BST (UK)  »
Since my last post I have obtained an image of the 1851 census which does indeed seem to show that John Fraser was 20, no matter how much I try to make it something older.

The reasons I doubt it are that when he emigrated to Australia in 1853, he gave his age as 32 and his wife's as 31. The family were unassisted so he must have paid his own passage and I see no reason why he would lower his age. When he died in 1875 his age was given as 52, but from hospital admission records I believe he was 53. In any case, both these dates indicate a birth date of 1821, 1822 or 1833.

The census gives Cromdale as the birthplace of both John and Elizabeth but I have Elizabeth's OPR which says:

Anderson and Guthrie
Betty daughter of John Anderson in Knock of Grenash and of his wife Christian Guthrie was born the 8th and Baptd the 29th February 1824

ANDERSON, Betty [O.P.R. Births 096/0B 0030 0018 Duthil and Rothiemurchus]

So unless I have the wrong couple in the census, it seems to have inconsistencies that don't help me to go forward.

John had one son (born in Australia) who he also called John. I am not sure of naming patterns, whether the younger John was named after his father or his father's father.
There was a female child born in Scotland who must have died young and then there was Christina who was 14 months old in 1853 when they emigrated. I can find no record of the Scotland baptisms, probably because they may have been performed by the Free Church minister.

Jennifer

6
Moray (Elginshire) / Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Monday 14 March 16 08:57 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Forfarian on Monday 14 March 16 08:52 GMT (UK)
A minor niggle.

Just because they were married by the Free Kirk minister does not suggest that the wedding ceremony was held in the church building. The majority of marriages at that time took place elsewhere. The traditional place was the bride's home, but if she had no parents, or was married a long way from home, the ceremony was often performed in her employer's house, or in the manse.

You are indeed very lucky that the Church of Scotland clerk recorded the marriage in the C of S records. This was supposed to be the norm, but unfortunately there are many examples of marriages, and baptisms, going unrecorded.

As for John's parents, at least you now know that he was born in the parish of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, and that (assuming his age in the census is correct) he was born in 1830 or 1831.

There is only one John Fraser in the index to baptisms in Cromdale Inverallan and Advie between 1829 and 1832. This is the son of Donald Fraser and Marjory McGrigor, who was born on 21 October 1831 and would therefore have been aged 9 on the date of the 1841 census. However he is with his parents at Corshellach in the 1851 census, therefore he is not your John Fraser. (This family seems to be missing from the 1841 census, at least on FreeCEN.)

There are three John Frasers in the 1841 of approximately the right age.
One aged 9, in the household of Alexander Fraser at Wester Achnafairn, where is also an Alexander Fraser, aged 11.
One aged 10, in the household of Donald Gordon at Bynaballich.
One aged 11, in the Orphan Hospital, where there are also James Fraser, 12, and Margaret Fraser, 10.

If the ages of all the John Frasers in the 1841 and 1851 censuses are accurate, yours would be either the second or the third one, or just possibly another one altogether, born in Cromdale but moved to another parish by 1841, though I have not found a likely candidate.

The only suggestion I have is to contact the Highland Genealogy Centre in Inverness, and ask them if there is any record in either the Kirk Session or the Parochial Board records of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie, or any records of the Orphan Hospital, that might shed any light on your John's origins.

It doesn't help that some parts of Cromdale Inverallan and Advie are in Moray, and some in Inverness-shire, and that people born in that parish might say their place of birth was any one of those three parts of the parish, or indeed Grantown-on-Spey.

Many thanks for all that.

For many reason I think the age of John of 20 in 1851 is incorrect. I believe he was more likely at least 26.

Jennifer

7
Moray (Elginshire) / Re: Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Monday 14 March 16 08:56 GMT (UK)  »
Many thanks, ev

This looks very likely, except for his age, which may have been mis-transcribed.
I will have to get some credits and order the image from Scotland's People.

Today I ordered the image for the only likely death of John in Victoria, Australia. There was not much information as he died in hospital (of tuberculosis) and parent's names and marriage/children, occupation were rendered "unknown". He died 19 Feb 1875 and at least they knew his age which was given as 52.

Jennifer

8
Moray (Elginshire) / Grantown Free Church - John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson 23 Jan 1851
« on: Monday 14 March 16 02:55 GMT (UK)  »
I am researching John Fraser and Elizabeth Anderson who married in Grantown Free Church 23 Jan 1851. I have the OPR of the marriage from Scotland's People:
O.P.R. Marriages 096/0B 0030 0150 Duthil and Rothiemurchus: 23/01/1851 FRASER, John and ANDERSON, Betty:
John Fraser Bridge End, Dava, Parish of Edinkillie and Betty Anderson Knock of Grenash were married 23rd January 1851 by Rev W Fraser F.C. Grantown.

I consider myself lucky to have that record as I believe Grantown FC records were destroyed in a fire at the manse in 1869. This probably explains why the birth of my Great Grandmother Christina Fraser born about 1852 cannot be found on Scotland's People, nor another female child born about 1851 and died before the family emigrated to Australia 24 Sep 1853.

I have been able to find Betty Anderson's birth 8 Feb 1824, Duthill, on Family Search. She had one more child in Australia and died the same year in 1855.
John Fraser is proving more elusive.
I thought I should be able to find John and Betty in the 1851 census but haven't been able to so far.

John Fraser worked as a butcher in Australia. I believe Elizabeth's brother and his family brought up Christina and the baby John.

I haven't found the death of John Fraser in Australia yet.
Any ideas on how I might find more about him in Scotland welcome. He would have been born about 1822.

9
London and Middlesex / Re: Barney Barnato's marriages- a mystery-plus montague richard leverson
« on: Saturday 20 September 14 15:18 BST (UK)  »
Quote from: KidCurry on Saturday 20 September 14 14:58 BST (UK)
Jennifer

No worries. Likewise, I am not in favour of public trees, there's no substitute for hours of research and paying out for documentation. One of the reasons why I keep my tree private!

Did you copy that article from the Jewish Chronicle "Verbatim?"

Kid Curry

Not exactly verbatim as I could only get the computer generated text which had a lot of spelling mistakes - for example WOOLF was spelled WOLLBT, and PRISCILLA was spelled PRTSCILLA.

That sort of thing makes it hard to search. I knew the burial date so I knew the article was probably about Woolf Isaacs.

It would be lovely if they would open up the archives like the Trove website in Australia which has digitised images and text of many Australian newspapers. We, the public, can correct the text if there are mistakes.

Jennifer

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