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Messages - BrettMaximus

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1
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 11:41 GMT (UK)  »
Sir James Augustus Henry Murray, FBA was a Scottish lexicographer and philologist. He was the primary editor of the Oxford English Dictionary from 1879 until his death.
Sir James was also a school teacher in Hawick. In the book, "The Wilson Story" he gets a mention as he taught some of the Wilson's.
Sir James is also played by Mel Gibson in the movie "The Professor and the Madman".
I wonder how on earth Mel Gibson would manage to include his trademark bare backside shot in a film about Sir James?

Haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO0TbcAkhYY

Brett

Er ... I'll get my coat, shall I? ...

2
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 04:35 GMT (UK)  »
Yes Josephine,

We shall have to agree to disagree.

I was raised in Australia using British English, so the dictionaries we used, were the likes of the Oxford Dictionary. So in this case, and Australian and an American would have had a different education in some ways, particularly in relation to spelling and grammar.

In my words, I generally say that past related members of my family are ancestors, yet I would refer to a GGGG grandfather (for example) to be a Direct Ancestor.

But I get your point Josephine.

Brett

3
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 03:48 GMT (UK)  »
We are not actually direct descendants of James and George, but they are considered our ancestors.

Your ancestors are only the people from whom you are directly descended. James and George are your distant relatives; they are not your ancestors.

Regards,
Josephine


Hi Josephine,

The definition of the noun "ancestor" seems to vary depending on the source of the definition.

At https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/ancestor it suggests that an Ancestor is a person related to you who lived a long time ago.

The Oxford Dictionary gives a similar explanation at: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/ancestor

However; the Merriam Webster's Dictionary, which I believe is an American dictionary, suggests that the word Ancestor means:  "One from whom a person is descended and who is usually more remote in the line of descent than a grandparent" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ancestor

The earlier two referenced dictionaries are British of course.

(Updated)



Regards

Brett

4
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:25 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Everyone, my name is Kelly Wilson, my uncle spent over 2 years traveling and tracing our family heritage to discover that we are direct descendants of James Wilson  and George Wilson (first cousins 5-6 down the line apparently)
I myself don't have the financial means to travel around the world to find out more information about my heritage as I live in Australia but would really love to know more. Is there any documentation that would help me trace back my history or any other information you could share to help me? Anything would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time.

Kelly Wilson

Hi, Kelly, and welcome to Rootschat.

I'm sure someone will be able to help you. It might be useful to state which James Wilson and George Wilson you're referring to.

Regards,
Josephine


Hey Kelly

What are you doing here?

It was more like 9 years of family research (thousands of hours and many many thousands of dollars).

I spent 3 months in Hawick in 2014 pouring over every record I could find, walking past every grave in every cemetery surrounding Hawick.

Just to be on the side of correctness. I think that the James and George that you refer to is James Wilson 1805-1860 and his brother George Wilson 1815-1898. There are many other siblings to them also.

We are not actually direct descendants of James and George, but they are considered our ancestors. James and George were 1st cousins to my GGG Grandfather (Your GGGG Grandfather) Walter Wilson 1798-1862, Cabinet Maker from Hawick.

James and George's grandfather, Walter Wilson 1712-1795 AKA Handless Wat, is my GGGGG Grandfather and your GGGGGG Grandfather ;-)

Hope you are well Kelly (Red Jelly Bean)


Brett

5
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Thursday 25 February 21 01:03 GMT (UK)  »
I believe that the Window's Tax (A tax on how many windows a building had), is where the term "Daylight Robbery" came from, as people boarded up their windows to avoid being taxed for them, hence a lack of daylight making its way into a building. Being robbed of daylight..

Interesting. I'm familiar with the term "highway robbery" but not "daylight robbery."

Regards,
Josephine

Attached is a snippet on the term Daylight Robbery. It is an Oxford Dictionary term I believe. So if you are American, it may not be a familiar term @Josephine.

Sir James Augustus Henry Murray, FBA was a Scottish lexicographer and philologist. He was the primary editor of the Oxford English Dictionary from 1879 until his death.

Sir James was also a school teacher in Hawick. In the book, "The Wilson Story" he gets a mention as he taught some of the Wilson's.

Sir James is also played by Mel Gibson in the movie "The Professor and the Madman".


Brett

6
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Wednesday 24 February 21 02:33 GMT (UK)  »
Not a problem @Josephine,

There were also lots of Buccleuch records, Business directories, Tax records and much more.

Some of the tax records were crazy. Dog Tax, Horse Tax, Hearth (Fire Place) Tax, Clock/Watch Tax and even a Windows Tax.

I believe that the Window's Tax (A tax on how many windows a building had), is where the term "Daylight Robbery" came from, as people boarded up their windows to avoid being taxed for them, hence a lack of daylight making its way into a building. Being robbed of daylight..

All of these such records help with ancestry research. And Scottish naming patterns can also help when they are adhered to.


Brett

7
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Wednesday 24 February 21 01:29 GMT (UK)  »
Hi @Josephine,

No the digitised transactions were not perk. They were given to me to assess, as to how they could be best used on the website.

I made a number of suggestions as to what could be done.

These records were essentially OCR scans, and each batch of text has a reference number that also corresponds to the image that the texts were scanned from.

Douglas Scott sources his information from many books and records (including the Transactions).

His Father R.E Scott or Dick Scott, probably knew more about the history of Hawick than anyone else, and he was a prolific collector of books and information on everything to do with the Scottish Borders, but with a focus on Hawick. He was also the Curator of the Wilton Lodge (Hawick Museum) http://www.hawickonline.com/wilton-lodge-park So his passion has apparently flowed down to the next generation of his family.

You can read all about R.E Scott in the Hawick Word Book.

The is a great book by R.E Scott called "Companion to Hawick". See attached. Douglas gave me a copy of it in 2014. You can buy one online if you search for it.

I know that there was some work being done for the Society to make HAS records available online, but I have not really had an update on this matter for a couple of years now.

Brett


@Josephine I received the HAS records on a hard drive in 2014 whilst in Hawick, from the then President of the Hawick Archaeological Society.

The files amount to 130 Gigabytes in total size, so they are not easily shared. The intention is that they will someday be available for members in a searchable format, via the Society's  website and available to folk around the globe to access. http://hawickhistory.scot

"A Hawick Word Book" by Professor Douglas Scott is available and downloadable online and that is your best bet for detailed information at this point @Josephine.

Brett

Thanks, Brett.

Are the digitized Transactions a perk of lifetime membership in the Hawick Archaeological Society? If so, where do I sign up?

I contacted the Society several years ago (prior to 2014) and was told about their intentions, but it still hasn't happened and I'm starting to doubt it'll happen in my lifetime. Have they even got a timeline for the launch? I'm shocked to learn that all of the Transactions were already digitized 7 years ago and nothing's been done with them: what a waste of potential income for the Society! At this point, it would probably make more sense financially to make them available for sale on CDs. If and when an index ever gets done and put up on their website, people could use both, or they could purchase the indexes on supplemental CDs.

I am familiar with Douglas Scott's impressive Hawick Word Book and consider it to be a helpful pointer but he doesn't list his sources, so when he writes something like, "A story is told that..." or "He is said to have...," I don't know where he got this information.

Unless Douglas Scott also has copies of all of the digitized Transactions?

The photos are very nice!

Regards,
Josephine

8
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 00:40 GMT (UK)  »

Part 3.

Ancient Origins of the Wilson Families

The Wilson family of Ayrshire was a Covenanting Protestant family. (“Covenanters” were adherents of the “National Covenant,” a 1638 agreement among Scottish Presbyterians to uphold their faith.) The name is also seen in the land of Kintyre (a peninsula between Scotland and Ireland) where the Ayrshire Wilsons who were Covenanters settled and were given farm land.

The Wilson's in Glasgow are predominantly related to the Wilson family that originated in 11th-century Berwickshire, Scotland and moved out into Ayrshire, during the formation of the Royal Boroughs under Kind David, and later into Kintyre (during the Covenanting wars).

This accounts for the earliest records of the name, which are found in Yorkshire, Berwickshire and Ayrshire. Berwickshire is situated along the border of Scotland and England, but was originally part of Scotland. The earliest written historical records of the name Wilson as a Scottish name are in Berwickshire, which is where the Wilsons of the lands south of Edinburgh and on the West coast, Ayrshire and Kintyre, are claimed to descend from. It is interesting to note that Berwick is barely a stone’s throw from Yorkshire, where the Norman-descended Wilsons of Jerusalem Hill are to be found.

The murder of the “virgin martyr” Margaret Wilson (who was of Berwickshire) at the hands of Oliver Cromwell (1599-1658) caused many Wilsons who were Covenanters to go west into Ayrshire and later Argyll. One instance of this is Margaret's brother, who was outraged at his sister’s murder and became a soldier in the Covenanting army which opposed Cromwell and his slaughter of Presbyterians. After waging war he fled to Kintyre and ultimately Ireland and may have ended up in the American colonies as a fugitive.

The Norman Wilsons of Jerusalem Hill, Yorkshire

In Yorkshire the name of Wilson of Jerusalem Hill (not our line) is attributed to the descendents of Sir William (Will) de Waldershelf, a knight from the Pennine Hills of Hunshelf and Waldershelf in Normandy, who came to the British Isles to join William the Conquerer after the conquest in 1066 and was apportioned lands in Yorkshire.

His descendant, John de Hunshelf and de Waldershelf, born around 1320, had a son William whose son John was the first to take the surname Wilson, in honor of their ancestor. This Yorkshire Wilson family is of the peerage, and their full and documented family tree can be found in older editions of Burke’s Peerage. Despite being from Normandy, their coat of arms is similar to that of most of the Nordic Wilson arms, with a rampant Wilson wolf surmounted by three stars, and similar latin mottoes including Aut pax, aut bellum (“Either in peace or in war”) and Vincit qui se vincit (“He conquers who conquers himself”).

As indicated above, some of the Norman Wilsons were apparently also the descendants of the original Danish Wilsons. They had been driven out of Scotland and England in 1002 by King Ethelred the Unready because he feared (justifiably) that they were against him. Fleeing to France, they returned with William the Conqueror and were by then considered Normans.

The Wilson family is found in the Domesday Book (William the Conqueror’s census of England in 1086), indicating that people of that surname (distinct from William de Waldershelf’s Norman line) had come to Britain with William the Conquerer in 1066. In Devon a Manorial Lordship dating from the Domesday Book is also called Wilson. The arms include the emblematic Wilson wolf with a fleur-de-lis overhead representing Normandy, and the motto of Wil sone wil (a pun on the name, translating as “Get one’s way”).

Recent Genetic Research

There is new and current speculation based on some recent evidence found in a huge DNA study (drawn on by the BBC for their show “The blood of the Vikings”). DNA samples were taken from groups across the four countries of the British Isles in order to determine the impact and spread of the Danish bloodlines, especially in the areas which were traditionally known to be Viking: the area of “the Danelaw” lands in northeastern England, and northeastern Scotland (Caithness and Orkney).

It was revealed that the Irish today are predominantly descended from the “Britons” or Brythonic Celts, as are most of the Welsh, and are not of Danish or Norman ancestry. Areas of northeastern Scotland and the Danelaw areas of England, on the other hand, were found to be predominantly of Danish/Norman descent.

The Wilson name, however, does have some representation in northern Wales, and this is also an area of A+ blood grouping—a blood group which only people of Nordic descent have. [See, for example, Helgason et al. (2001) MtDNA and the islands of the North Atlantic: estimating the proportions of Norse and Gaelic ancestry. American Journal of Human Genetics, vol. 68, pp. 723-737.]

<<Ends>>

9
Roxburghshire / Re: Turnbull / Bonchesterbrige
« on: Tuesday 23 February 21 00:39 GMT (UK)  »

Part 2.

Ancient Origins of the Wilson Families

These earliest Wilsons stem specifically from a Danish tribe who followed a 9th- century Prince named Wolf—which allegedly gave all Wilsons who possessed a grant of arms the privilege of using the golden wolf on their family crest. The Wilson surname from this line is a corruption of “Wolf’s son” and “Wilf’s son.” Apparently any Wilson coat of arms containing the rampant wolf, and there are a number of them, indicates an ancient line stemming from Prince Wolf in the 9th century.

The Wilsons of Sandbach in Cheshire, for example, situated just a few miles from Tattenhall where our Wilsons lived, had just such a coat of arms: a golden wolf on a black background surmounted by three gold stars (or, in the old English/French language of heraldry: “Sable, a wolf rampant Or, in chief three estoiles of the second”). One might theorize that our Wilsons, in such close proximity but of commoner status by the 18th century, were from the same stock but had lost their armorial roots over the generations. That, however, would be wrong.

It should be noted that the name Wilson was recorded in Ayrshire at least a hundred years prior to the time of William Gunn: a Michael Wilson, born in the mid- 1300’s, was burgess of Ayr in 1418. That example alone predates the Wilsons of the clan Gunn by at least a century or more, and probably stems from the more ancient clan Inness, Wilsons who had taken their name from Prince Wolf. The Wilsons of the Tattenhall and Carden area who trace their ancestry to Andrew Willsonne (born ca. 1450) also predate William Gunn.

During the creation of the Scottish boroughs under King David of Scotland (1084-1153) many English/Welsh people came north to settle in the new boroughs; Irish –descended and Norman-descended Wilsons may have been among them. In any case, the Ayrshire group of Wilsons is considerably larger than any other branch of Wilsons in Scotland, and they also seem to have held lands in Ireland.

The Norse-descended clan Inness Wilsons and clan Gunn Wilsons took lands around Berwickshire, Ayrshire, Fraserburgh, Fingach, Kelton, Glenderston, Glasgow and Edinburgh, and are especially numerous today in Ulster. They aided William the Conquerer by taking part in the war on the side of the Vikings, whom Harold of England fought in the North of England prior to the battle of Hastings in 1066. This was a diversionary tactic which drew Harold's attention from the actual invasion site of William the Conquerer in the south of England.

Although the surname Wilson is among the 30 most common surnames in Ireland today, it was formerly thought that all Wilsons from Ireland were actually of Scottish ancestry, descended from Scots who went there after the religious wars when King William of Orange (1650-1702) settled Protestant lowland Scottish families there. DNA analysis, however, has shown that many Northern Irish Wilsons are instead descended from an Irish warlord over a thousand years earlier, long predating the Scottish immigration there. The Wilson name today is most common in Ulster, and also in Antrim, Armagh, Down, Tyrone, Dublin, Derry and Fermanagh..

The Irish and Norse-Scottish Wilsons also moved south into England, especially after the disbanding of the Scottish border clans in 1603. Major branches of the Wilson family were established in Eshton Hall, Yorkshire; Melton, Bankhall; Penrith in Cumberland; Casterton Hall in Westmoreland; Forest Hall in Northumberland; and Rivington Hall in Lancashire.

Part 3 in a following reply


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