1
Aberdeenshire / Re: Meaning of cousin late 1800's in Aberdeen
« on: Thursday 26 March 20 21:42 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your replies. Answer seems to be a close family member
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2
Aberdeenshire / Meaning of cousin late 1800's in Aberdeen
« on: Thursday 26 March 20 01:40 GMT (UK) »
Have copies of letters written late 1800's referring to "my cousin" and "your cousin" to/from child/youth-hood friends. Both educated Peterhead/Longside area.
Would the term cousin mean only your parents siblings children ,or, also include your parents cousins children ie. second cousins.
Thanks
Would the term cousin mean only your parents siblings children ,or, also include your parents cousins children ie. second cousins.
Thanks
3
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Monday 22 January 18 00:13 GMT (UK) »
Forgot to add the following.
ADAM HAY DISCUSSION.
1. Marjory Hay was christened on 5/10/1838 in the presence of Adam Hay, labourer.
a. In 1841 census, an Adam Hay is an ag. lab. aged 30 living with Margaret Hay (40), probably sister at Kirkton, Culsamond. In 1851 census an Adam Hay is a slate miner, age 40, at Culsamond, (born Culsamond) boarding with multiple mason apprentices. Death records show Adam died at Kirkton, Culsamond, slate quarrier, on 26/3/1855, age 41, father Alex (church officer) and mother Joan/Jean Glass. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
b. Adam Hay is listed as a tailor in 1841 (born Gamrie, Banffshire) and 1851census (born Turriff) and age is correct in 1851 census to be son of Adam and Jean Prott.) Turriff. He married Margaret Bruce of Old Aberdeen on 17/4/1835 and later moved to Old Machar. Margaret born 12/6/1814 at Banff and died 8/4/1899 Dundee- father George Bruce, mother Mary Fraser. He was listed as a tailor at his wedding. They had Adam Alexander Hay ch. on 5/3/1838 at St. Nicholas, Old Machar. This Adam appears to be the brother of most likely “our” Alex family.
c. In the 1841 census, Adam Hay is listed as farmer, aged 25, at Upperton, Glenbucket with Mary, age 50, independent (mother??), Elizabeth, age 25 and William, age 13.
In 1851 census Adam, age 35, farmer of 10 acres at Upperton, born Glenbucket, with wife Jannet, age 23, with 2 daughters (Isobel age 1 and Mary age 2).
He is most likely to be son of Adam and Mary Grassach ch. 20/7/1815, Glenbucket. Parents married 1808, Glenbucket. Also had Margaret, 10/4/1817, Isobel, 17/9/1813 and Elizabeth, 4/3/1810. This Adam jnr. would have been age 23 for Marjory christening, and possibly a labourer. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
d. Adam Hay, 1841 census, age 15 (possibly rounded down) at Finnylost, Strathdon Parish, male servant to a farmer. In 1851 census, Alex, farm servant, age 30 at Strathdon. Death records have Adam died 29/1/1858, age 36, illegitimate and single, at Strathdon. Father John (farmer) and mother Mary Anderson. Death caused by drink and cold exposure during night. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
e. An Adam had a child, Adam, who died 25/4/1817, Old Machar, father Adam, vintner, Aberdeen and carrier, Peterhead. An Adam died 1/3/1827, carrier, Aberdeen, buried Old Machar.
Following on from the previous points, it is possible that the Adam Hay was a brother to Alexander, or of another relationship.
Marjory Bruce Discussion.
Marjory Bruce married Alexander Hay. Her parents listed as George and Marjory (nee Fraser) Bruce.
No records could be found for either female, or the Fraser/Bruce wedding. Records were found for the wedding of George Bruce and May Fraser on 20/8/1802 and they are listed as parents of May, 4/9/1811, William, 26/4/1807, Margaret, 7/6/1814, Hellen, 7/1/1800, George, 20/8/1802, Catharine, 20/8/1802 and Anne, 8/8/1804. George and May were married the same day as twins were christened 20/8/1802. All the above at Banff. A George Bruce was buried 28/2/1840, age 64, labourer at Old Machar, Aberdeen.
The Marjory who married Alex is assumed to be May born 4/9/1811 (her mother was May, but called herself Marjory). If so the brothers, Alex and Adam Hay probably married sisters -May (Marjory) and Margaret Bruce.
George Hay discussion.
George Hay, age 10-14 was listed in the 1841 census as being in same house as Alex and Marjory.
George would have been born (about 1830, prior to their marriage). A George Hay christening was found for 29/5/1827 at Aberdeen. “Alexander Hay, mason, and his spouse Grace Farquhar had a son born named George baptised by the ? Bishop Skinner in presence of James ? and George Davidson masons”. Apart from the ch. of George, the only record for a Grace Farquhar is a ch. of Grace on 10//7/1783 at Kirkmichael, Perth- parents David Farquhar and Elspeth Robertson.
For elimination purposes. Possible George, mason ch. 1829, married Katharine Farquhar, 3/10/1856, Duffus. Marriage, George, day-labourer, father John, mason, dec., mother Katherine McLennan dec. Her father William, day-labourer, dec., mother Elizabeth Murdoch, dec. Therefore, not ours.
Maybe George was a son of a previous generation, or more likely it means that, Alexander (senior) was previously married. If this is the case, then Alex should have been 16, or over, to be married, and 17/18 to be a mason. Thus, his birth was about 1809/10 or earlier.
ADAM HAY DISCUSSION.
1. Marjory Hay was christened on 5/10/1838 in the presence of Adam Hay, labourer.
a. In 1841 census, an Adam Hay is an ag. lab. aged 30 living with Margaret Hay (40), probably sister at Kirkton, Culsamond. In 1851 census an Adam Hay is a slate miner, age 40, at Culsamond, (born Culsamond) boarding with multiple mason apprentices. Death records show Adam died at Kirkton, Culsamond, slate quarrier, on 26/3/1855, age 41, father Alex (church officer) and mother Joan/Jean Glass. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
b. Adam Hay is listed as a tailor in 1841 (born Gamrie, Banffshire) and 1851census (born Turriff) and age is correct in 1851 census to be son of Adam and Jean Prott.) Turriff. He married Margaret Bruce of Old Aberdeen on 17/4/1835 and later moved to Old Machar. Margaret born 12/6/1814 at Banff and died 8/4/1899 Dundee- father George Bruce, mother Mary Fraser. He was listed as a tailor at his wedding. They had Adam Alexander Hay ch. on 5/3/1838 at St. Nicholas, Old Machar. This Adam appears to be the brother of most likely “our” Alex family.
c. In the 1841 census, Adam Hay is listed as farmer, aged 25, at Upperton, Glenbucket with Mary, age 50, independent (mother??), Elizabeth, age 25 and William, age 13.
In 1851 census Adam, age 35, farmer of 10 acres at Upperton, born Glenbucket, with wife Jannet, age 23, with 2 daughters (Isobel age 1 and Mary age 2).
He is most likely to be son of Adam and Mary Grassach ch. 20/7/1815, Glenbucket. Parents married 1808, Glenbucket. Also had Margaret, 10/4/1817, Isobel, 17/9/1813 and Elizabeth, 4/3/1810. This Adam jnr. would have been age 23 for Marjory christening, and possibly a labourer. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
d. Adam Hay, 1841 census, age 15 (possibly rounded down) at Finnylost, Strathdon Parish, male servant to a farmer. In 1851 census, Alex, farm servant, age 30 at Strathdon. Death records have Adam died 29/1/1858, age 36, illegitimate and single, at Strathdon. Father John (farmer) and mother Mary Anderson. Death caused by drink and cold exposure during night. Adam may be the witness at the christening of Marjory, but the family relationship is unknown.
e. An Adam had a child, Adam, who died 25/4/1817, Old Machar, father Adam, vintner, Aberdeen and carrier, Peterhead. An Adam died 1/3/1827, carrier, Aberdeen, buried Old Machar.
Following on from the previous points, it is possible that the Adam Hay was a brother to Alexander, or of another relationship.
Marjory Bruce Discussion.
Marjory Bruce married Alexander Hay. Her parents listed as George and Marjory (nee Fraser) Bruce.
No records could be found for either female, or the Fraser/Bruce wedding. Records were found for the wedding of George Bruce and May Fraser on 20/8/1802 and they are listed as parents of May, 4/9/1811, William, 26/4/1807, Margaret, 7/6/1814, Hellen, 7/1/1800, George, 20/8/1802, Catharine, 20/8/1802 and Anne, 8/8/1804. George and May were married the same day as twins were christened 20/8/1802. All the above at Banff. A George Bruce was buried 28/2/1840, age 64, labourer at Old Machar, Aberdeen.
The Marjory who married Alex is assumed to be May born 4/9/1811 (her mother was May, but called herself Marjory). If so the brothers, Alex and Adam Hay probably married sisters -May (Marjory) and Margaret Bruce.
George Hay discussion.
George Hay, age 10-14 was listed in the 1841 census as being in same house as Alex and Marjory.
George would have been born (about 1830, prior to their marriage). A George Hay christening was found for 29/5/1827 at Aberdeen. “Alexander Hay, mason, and his spouse Grace Farquhar had a son born named George baptised by the ? Bishop Skinner in presence of James ? and George Davidson masons”. Apart from the ch. of George, the only record for a Grace Farquhar is a ch. of Grace on 10//7/1783 at Kirkmichael, Perth- parents David Farquhar and Elspeth Robertson.
For elimination purposes. Possible George, mason ch. 1829, married Katharine Farquhar, 3/10/1856, Duffus. Marriage, George, day-labourer, father John, mason, dec., mother Katherine McLennan dec. Her father William, day-labourer, dec., mother Elizabeth Murdoch, dec. Therefore, not ours.
Maybe George was a son of a previous generation, or more likely it means that, Alexander (senior) was previously married. If this is the case, then Alex should have been 16, or over, to be married, and 17/18 to be a mason. Thus, his birth was about 1809/10 or earlier.
4
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 22:29 GMT (UK) »
Malky
That is her. She morphs into Jane for her wedding in 1860.
I am convinced that girls, Marjory and Jean/Jane are individuals, and not the same person. However, cannot find death of Marjory (about 1839- except for my original post.) And cannot find birth of Jane.
That is her. She morphs into Jane for her wedding in 1860.
I am convinced that girls, Marjory and Jean/Jane are individuals, and not the same person. However, cannot find death of Marjory (about 1839- except for my original post.) And cannot find birth of Jane.
5
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 21:39 GMT (UK) »
1. Alexander Hay (senior) (father of Alexander who came to Australia) was born around 1809/10 or earlier. We know Alexander Hay (senior) and Marjory Bruce were married on 27/10/1836 and two children were christened in the parish.
As the 1841 census states that he was born in Aberdeenshire, the IGI records of Aberdeen parishes were searched. The below potential ancestors have records available- there may be others that have not been found:
a. Alexander Hay was christened 17/9/1807 at Turriff. Father was Adam Hay (mother not listed). Also born to an Adam was George ch. 26/6/1805 and Adam b. 14/9/1812 (Adam’s mother, Jean Pratt) all at Turriff. Adam and Jean Pratt were married, 4/12/1802 in Turriff. It is assumed that Jean was the mother to all children.
Adam jnr. would have been age 26 for christening of Marjory in Oct 1838 and 28 for 1841 census. Alex would have been 19 if he was the father of George, and 19 is old enough to be married and also a mason.
Of interest, in 1841 census, George, mason journeyman, age 30, with Isabella, age 65 and Margaret age 25, all resident in Turriff. Is George, brother, or related to Alex? Is Isabella his mother, and Margaret his wife or sister? Cannot identify George in 1851 census.
The 1841 census also has William, mason, age 45 (in 1851, age 60, born King Edward). Is William a relative?
The 1841 census only identified the shire you were born in- our Adam was Aberdeenshire. The 1851 stated the parish also. No Alex Hay in the 1851 census (after he died) was born in Turriff, Aberdeenshire-(only Adam (brother?), tailor, age 38).
This family is likely to be ours.
b. Alexander Hay was christened at Old Machar Parish on 17/8/1811. Parents were Adam Hay, (flax draper when married) and Jane/Jean Milne married 25/4/1809 at New Machar and (he from Peterhead). Known siblings (all christened at St. Nicholas) were Charles Stephen (ch. 18/4/1813), Elizabeth (ch. 30/7/1814) and Adam ch. 7/3/1823.
Adam Jnr would have been aged 15 when Marjory was christened, and age 18 for the 1841 census. Adam Snr or Jnr could have been the witness for the christening of Marjory (Jane/Jean).
ORPHAN Adam (ch. 10/6/1816)-he possibly died 9/10/1817, Old Machar, father Adam, vintner.
On balance, this most likely is not our family, because Alex would have only been age 15 (age 16 to be married) if he was father to George in 29/5/1827, and also listed as a mason (normally age 18). However, Adam may have been the witness.
c. Alexander Hay was christened at Fyvie, Aberdeen on 26/3/1807. Father was George Hay. A George Hay was father (mother not listed) to William, 12 /3/1809, Peter, 2/8/1804, James, 24/2/1802 and to Mary, 10/9/1815, (mother Jane Davidson). All at Fyvie. George Hay and Jane Davidson were married 13/4/1800 at Fyvie, so it is reasonable to assume that this is all one family.
1851 census has George age 81 (born Fyvie), retired farmer, and wife Jean, age 78, living in Turriff. Next door is William, age 40, farmer of 140acres, born Fyvie, living Turriff, and wife Margaret age 39 and Jean 11 months.
Next door is James, farmer, 10 acres, age 49 and wife Isabel, age 41. Children born Banff and older at King Edward.
Separately is Peter, farmer, age 47, with wife Mary, age 40 and Mary 13, she born Old Deer, and Margaret 3, Ruthen.
No Alex Hay born Fyvie is in 1851 census, so this may be our family.
As the 1841 census states that he was born in Aberdeenshire, the IGI records of Aberdeen parishes were searched. The below potential ancestors have records available- there may be others that have not been found:
a. Alexander Hay was christened 17/9/1807 at Turriff. Father was Adam Hay (mother not listed). Also born to an Adam was George ch. 26/6/1805 and Adam b. 14/9/1812 (Adam’s mother, Jean Pratt) all at Turriff. Adam and Jean Pratt were married, 4/12/1802 in Turriff. It is assumed that Jean was the mother to all children.
Adam jnr. would have been age 26 for christening of Marjory in Oct 1838 and 28 for 1841 census. Alex would have been 19 if he was the father of George, and 19 is old enough to be married and also a mason.
Of interest, in 1841 census, George, mason journeyman, age 30, with Isabella, age 65 and Margaret age 25, all resident in Turriff. Is George, brother, or related to Alex? Is Isabella his mother, and Margaret his wife or sister? Cannot identify George in 1851 census.
The 1841 census also has William, mason, age 45 (in 1851, age 60, born King Edward). Is William a relative?
The 1841 census only identified the shire you were born in- our Adam was Aberdeenshire. The 1851 stated the parish also. No Alex Hay in the 1851 census (after he died) was born in Turriff, Aberdeenshire-(only Adam (brother?), tailor, age 38).
This family is likely to be ours.
b. Alexander Hay was christened at Old Machar Parish on 17/8/1811. Parents were Adam Hay, (flax draper when married) and Jane/Jean Milne married 25/4/1809 at New Machar and (he from Peterhead). Known siblings (all christened at St. Nicholas) were Charles Stephen (ch. 18/4/1813), Elizabeth (ch. 30/7/1814) and Adam ch. 7/3/1823.
Adam Jnr would have been aged 15 when Marjory was christened, and age 18 for the 1841 census. Adam Snr or Jnr could have been the witness for the christening of Marjory (Jane/Jean).
ORPHAN Adam (ch. 10/6/1816)-he possibly died 9/10/1817, Old Machar, father Adam, vintner.
On balance, this most likely is not our family, because Alex would have only been age 15 (age 16 to be married) if he was father to George in 29/5/1827, and also listed as a mason (normally age 18). However, Adam may have been the witness.
c. Alexander Hay was christened at Fyvie, Aberdeen on 26/3/1807. Father was George Hay. A George Hay was father (mother not listed) to William, 12 /3/1809, Peter, 2/8/1804, James, 24/2/1802 and to Mary, 10/9/1815, (mother Jane Davidson). All at Fyvie. George Hay and Jane Davidson were married 13/4/1800 at Fyvie, so it is reasonable to assume that this is all one family.
1851 census has George age 81 (born Fyvie), retired farmer, and wife Jean, age 78, living in Turriff. Next door is William, age 40, farmer of 140acres, born Fyvie, living Turriff, and wife Margaret age 39 and Jean 11 months.
Next door is James, farmer, 10 acres, age 49 and wife Isabel, age 41. Children born Banff and older at King Edward.
Separately is Peter, farmer, age 47, with wife Mary, age 40 and Mary 13, she born Old Deer, and Margaret 3, Ruthen.
No Alex Hay born Fyvie is in 1851 census, so this may be our family.
6
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 21:38 GMT (UK) »
Sorry-had to send as separate messages due to word count limits.
7
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 21:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for replies, Forfarian and flst may remember their previous assistance.
1841 census has Alex age 30, mason, Marjory age 30, George age 10, Jean age 5 and Alex age 5m, living at Love Lane, Spittal. Alex snr died some time after census and Marjory snr married James Ross 1846.
I am trying to find parents of Alex snr. and death of Marjory jnr and birth of Jean/Jane.
Have attached below some of my notes. Suggest skim reading first to learn the reasoning and details- bit of a "dogs breakfast".
1. For the 1841 census anyone up to 15 years old was listed as their age, over age 15 were rounded down to closest 5 years. These rules seemed to confuse some census takers. We do not know when Alexander (senior) was born, or which parish.
2. Old Machar/ St Nicholas Parish, Aberdeen appears to be our family area.
3. Alexander (junior) (5 months) agrees with christening of 23/12/1840. Parents were Alexander and Marjory. This would appear to be “our” Alexander.
4. Marjory (junior) christened 5/10/1838 is not listed in the house. A Marjory Hay buried 5/10/1840 at St Peter’s- no details of age or parents. As well, Marjory may have been called Jane.
5. George would have been born (about 1831) prior to their marriage. A George Hay christening was found for 29/5/1827 at Aberdeen. “Alexander Hay, mason, and his spouse Grace Farquhar had a son born named George baptised by the ? Bishop Skinner in presence of James ? and George Davidson masons”. Apart from the ch. of George, the only record for a Grace Farquhar is a ch. of Grace on 10/7/783 at Kirkmichael, Perth- parents David Farquhar and Elspeth Robertson. It is assumed that Alexander (senior) was previously married. If this is the case, then Alex would have been 16 or over to be married, and 17/18 to be a mason. Thus, his birth was about 1809/10 or earlier.
Jean in the above census may have been Jane (try saying Jane and Jean with a Scottish accent), but no record of her birth has been found.
6. The christening records state that Alexander (senior) was a mason. The Alexander who came to Australia also listed his occupation as a mason.
7. This family would appear to be ours.
1841 census has Alex age 30, mason, Marjory age 30, George age 10, Jean age 5 and Alex age 5m, living at Love Lane, Spittal. Alex snr died some time after census and Marjory snr married James Ross 1846.
I am trying to find parents of Alex snr. and death of Marjory jnr and birth of Jean/Jane.
Have attached below some of my notes. Suggest skim reading first to learn the reasoning and details- bit of a "dogs breakfast".
1. For the 1841 census anyone up to 15 years old was listed as their age, over age 15 were rounded down to closest 5 years. These rules seemed to confuse some census takers. We do not know when Alexander (senior) was born, or which parish.
2. Old Machar/ St Nicholas Parish, Aberdeen appears to be our family area.
3. Alexander (junior) (5 months) agrees with christening of 23/12/1840. Parents were Alexander and Marjory. This would appear to be “our” Alexander.
4. Marjory (junior) christened 5/10/1838 is not listed in the house. A Marjory Hay buried 5/10/1840 at St Peter’s- no details of age or parents. As well, Marjory may have been called Jane.
5. George would have been born (about 1831) prior to their marriage. A George Hay christening was found for 29/5/1827 at Aberdeen. “Alexander Hay, mason, and his spouse Grace Farquhar had a son born named George baptised by the ? Bishop Skinner in presence of James ? and George Davidson masons”. Apart from the ch. of George, the only record for a Grace Farquhar is a ch. of Grace on 10/7/783 at Kirkmichael, Perth- parents David Farquhar and Elspeth Robertson. It is assumed that Alexander (senior) was previously married. If this is the case, then Alex would have been 16 or over to be married, and 17/18 to be a mason. Thus, his birth was about 1809/10 or earlier.
Jean in the above census may have been Jane (try saying Jane and Jean with a Scottish accent), but no record of her birth has been found.
6. The christening records state that Alexander (senior) was a mason. The Alexander who came to Australia also listed his occupation as a mason.
7. This family would appear to be ours.
8
Aberdeenshire / Re: Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 08:38 GMT (UK) »
hurworth
I was not sure of rules for this site-yes that was the site referred to.
What I am trying to achieve is who these people are. They are names that are in my most likely ancestors, but cannot get proof.
I was not sure of rules for this site-yes that was the site referred to.
What I am trying to achieve is who these people are. They are names that are in my most likely ancestors, but cannot get proof.
9
Aberdeenshire / Burials St Peter's Aberdeen
« on: Sunday 21 January 18 05:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Have searched OPR's for deaths of various ancestors and cannot find some. Tried an on-line site with name with similar meaning to "died" (not sure if I can name site) and had results at St Peter's.
In grave reference CY/3/3 ;
Hay, Alexander 20 Dec 1843
Hay, Helen (female of) 8 Oct 1843
Hay, Marjory 5 Oct 1840
Hay, Mrs 1 May 1839
Hay, Adam 1 Apr 1839
Separately, Hay Alexander 16/3/1842 ref. CE/NW/21
Can anyone assist in my efforts to solve my "brick wall".
Have searched OPR's for deaths of various ancestors and cannot find some. Tried an on-line site with name with similar meaning to "died" (not sure if I can name site) and had results at St Peter's.
In grave reference CY/3/3 ;
Hay, Alexander 20 Dec 1843
Hay, Helen (female of) 8 Oct 1843
Hay, Marjory 5 Oct 1840
Hay, Mrs 1 May 1839
Hay, Adam 1 Apr 1839
Separately, Hay Alexander 16/3/1842 ref. CE/NW/21
Can anyone assist in my efforts to solve my "brick wall".