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Mary Ellen White, Charlotte White's sister.

Census records and Roman Catholic Church baptism documents show that Mary Ellen White was the sister of my grandmother, Charlotte White.

It appears that Mary Ellen was born about 1866. She married William Carpenter in Liverpool in 1886. The marriage is shown in the England & Wales Civil Registration of Marriages list with Reference Volume 8B, Page 826, Line 146.

It is also listed in the Lancashire Marriage Index for 1886 with Reference
REG WD/110/23

I would like to ask: How can I obtain a copy of the wedding certificate or a document showing names of Mary Ellen's mother and father and which of the above references should I give? I assume from the UK government or would it have to be from a genealogical site? (I live in Canada so it would have to be by mail).

Thanks Jim Robinson

I've been absent for a few years but I am again thinking about genealogical matters pertaining to my biological father -- however I am faced with a dilema:

My father's name is James Albert Knighton, born December 4th 1901 in Liverpool, England.

James Albert was the 4th child born to Charlotte and James Knighton

I have established the names of the parents of my father from his baptism details as documented by the Roman Catholic parish of St. Michael's, Liverpool.

Father is James  Knighton
Mother is Charlotte White

The records of the 1901 Census, gathered earkier that year show that Charlotte's married name was Charlotte Knighton, married to James Knighton.

The census also provides the ages of  Charlotte as 29 and James as 31 years of age as of 31st March 1901.

From that we can calculate the birth year for the Knightons; Charlotte's would be 1872 and James would have been born 1870, subject to their birth months there might be a 1 year difference.

Now comes the problem:
The only marriege entry I can find shows a James and Charlotte being married on July 22, 1891 – which would be about right for my father's parents except that their ages are given as 21 for James and 22 for Charlotte. That would put their birth years as 1869 for Charlottes, 1870 for James. In agreement with census document for James but 2 or 3 years different for Charlotte.

Question:
Are the 2 Charlottes, mentioned above, the same one person or are they 2 people with the same names, both first and surnames?

If the latter, the 2 Charlotttes identified on the marriage certificate and the census are 2 people, it would also mean that they had each marrried a man with the same name, James Knighton, also born the same year, 1870. In other words, 2 Charlotte Knightons  (nee White) and 2 James Knightons

How likely is that?

Your comments or suggestions would be welcomed.

.

1851 has an interesting family

James Cook 31 yrs Lace Maker b Arnold, Notts
Eliza 34 yrs b Radbourne, Derbyshire
William 2 yrs b Derby
Ann 8 months b Nottingham

It appears that in 1851 this family is living in Nottingham, Ann, just 8 months old, being  born there.
And Nottingham was an important centre for Lace making – providing employmant for James Cook.
Note: 10 years later, according to the 1861 census, the above Eliza from Radbourn appears to be the wife of James Knighton.
-------------------------------------------
1861 Nottingham
Some time between the census years of 1851 and 1861, it appears that the above Eliza and her two children, William and Ann, became a family with James Knighton where Eliza (Elizabeth) is identified on the 1861 census as the wife of James Knighton. James is 43 and Elizabeth is 44 – there are no other children, presumably Elizabeth is past child bearing age, and that might indicate that her association with James, at least in the 'marital'sense, came nearer to 1861 than to 1851 when she would have been 34.
The occupation of James Knighton is given as lacemaker.
Possible scenario:   Both James Cook and James Knighton were lacemakers, let us assume workmates for the same employer for several years, before and after 1851. They were about the same age and both were born in Arnold, Nottinghamshire so they may even have known each other since childhood.
For some reason, perhaps death or desertion, Mrs. Eliza Cook became, Eliza Knighton – either officially or unnofficially – at this time we have not yet found a record of marriage for them.
Question:
From the census records for following years it seems evident that James Knighton enjoyed being married, at least he did after the age of 40, with Elizabeth, Eliza, and Jane --- But what about the years before then, was there an earlier marriage that we are unaware of ? But if there was, why are there no children from such a liason that would likely have been living under his roof if that wife had died? Or . . . ?

I will give that some thought, although it is not essential for me to know the whole history, especially since I have no contact personaly with any of the Knighton family - Thanks, it has been interesting to speculate and more may come to light yet. JimR.

And the son Wiilliam Knighton does appear to be, at 33 in 1881, much older than the other younger children
Arther at 13, James at 11 -- somewhat difficult to account for -- except William from the earlier marriage to Elizabeth, maybe remained a while in Derbyshire and late joined his father, now by 1871 married to Eliza, with 3 new children of hers. Arthur, James, and Anny -- and by 1881 William has shown up with them all -- but not the older Ann listed 1861