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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Wednesday 21 December 05 21:31 GMT (UK) »
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Friday 09 December 05 12:42 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant work Martha! Now with the latest gen. from McGills,we have definite ID's on all the crew.
I see that DuSablon had siblings, have we any info at all on their ages? I think that if the original photograph resembles anyone, DuSablon would get my vote. From Martha's post about personal effects, he would seem to be the most likely to carry a picture of a younger brother.
I see that DuSablon had siblings, have we any info at all on their ages? I think that if the original photograph resembles anyone, DuSablon would get my vote. From Martha's post about personal effects, he would seem to be the most likely to carry a picture of a younger brother.
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Wednesday 07 December 05 13:01 GMT (UK) »
Sorry Caroline, I was under the impression that third from the left was identified as Burke?
Tranquilizers are just to your left love!
Bill.
Tranquilizers are just to your left love!
Bill.
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Friday 25 November 05 15:05 GMT (UK) »
Caroline,
If our young man is RAF, as seems likely, might it not be worth involving the UK media in the search? It just might be that someone will recognise him on this side of "the pond".
If our young man is RAF, as seems likely, might it not be worth involving the UK media in the search? It just might be that someone will recognise him on this side of "the pond".
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Thursday 24 November 05 10:41 GMT (UK) »
Caroline,
Nothing in the photograph gives any indication about when the picture was taken, however, I suspect it was when he was newly commissioned. My reason for that statement is that his hat looks quite new and pristine.
Bomber types were quite proud of their SD caps and would endeavour to hang on to them even when issued with new uniforms. A bomber man's "operational" cap was a treasured possession and was quite often regarded as a talisman.
Nothing in the photograph gives any indication about when the picture was taken, however, I suspect it was when he was newly commissioned. My reason for that statement is that his hat looks quite new and pristine.
Bomber types were quite proud of their SD caps and would endeavour to hang on to them even when issued with new uniforms. A bomber man's "operational" cap was a treasured possession and was quite often regarded as a talisman.
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Wednesday 23 November 05 23:06 GMT (UK) »
Only one flaw I can see in McGill's message; If our young man was part of the Commonwealth Training Plan, he would have a white flash at the front of his cap denoting "aircrew under training".
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Wednesday 23 November 05 22:00 GMT (UK) »
Caroline,
Thanks for your posting, I'm glad that I'm not the only one to make such assertions!
I agree with everything Harry says, the OTU's did have to cope with some very tired old aeroplanes and I'm sure that contributed in no small part to the loss of so many trainee aircrew.
Looking at the loss reports for this particular night, 22 OTU lost three aircraft , as Harry says. What struck me as I read the reports was the fact that all three reported problems with the starboard engine. That is some spooky coincidence.
Now I'm going to really stick my neck out!
Studying the photo of our young man for the umpteenth time and comparing facial features with the crew photo, I believe there is quite a resemblance to the man second from right, i.e. the one I nominate as the rear gunner. If it is not a younger version of him, then it could well be a younger brother, in which case he may not have been aircrew, hence no flying badges and if the photo was taken in Canada, he would not necessarily have worn CANADA flashes.
Thanks for your posting, I'm glad that I'm not the only one to make such assertions!
I agree with everything Harry says, the OTU's did have to cope with some very tired old aeroplanes and I'm sure that contributed in no small part to the loss of so many trainee aircrew.
Looking at the loss reports for this particular night, 22 OTU lost three aircraft , as Harry says. What struck me as I read the reports was the fact that all three reported problems with the starboard engine. That is some spooky coincidence.
Now I'm going to really stick my neck out!
Studying the photo of our young man for the umpteenth time and comparing facial features with the crew photo, I believe there is quite a resemblance to the man second from right, i.e. the one I nominate as the rear gunner. If it is not a younger version of him, then it could well be a younger brother, in which case he may not have been aircrew, hence no flying badges and if the photo was taken in Canada, he would not necessarily have worn CANADA flashes.
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Wednesday 23 November 05 14:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi J.J.
Thanks for the welcome
If Allison was the bomb-aimer, then that would seem to suggest that the chap on the right of the line is the navigator,i.e. Villneuve.( I remain convinced that Allison is third from right, on Burke's left.) No self respecting nav. would let his bag of tricks stray far, and that is definitely a nav's bag on the ground in front of the three on the right. Given that the man second from the left is the other gunner, that puts Hamel, the pilot, as the man extreme left.
Pure conjecture of course, but with what evidence there is to hand, I feel fairly confident that I'm somewhere near the mark.
I have, of course, just set myself up to be knocked down but, there you go!
Thanks for the welcome
If Allison was the bomb-aimer, then that would seem to suggest that the chap on the right of the line is the navigator,i.e. Villneuve.( I remain convinced that Allison is third from right, on Burke's left.) No self respecting nav. would let his bag of tricks stray far, and that is definitely a nav's bag on the ground in front of the three on the right. Given that the man second from the left is the other gunner, that puts Hamel, the pilot, as the man extreme left.
Pure conjecture of course, but with what evidence there is to hand, I feel fairly confident that I'm somewhere near the mark.
I have, of course, just set myself up to be knocked down but, there you go!
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World War Two / Re: Mystery picture found near site of Canadian plane crash in Wales...who is he?
« on: Tuesday 22 November 05 23:15 GMT (UK) »
I have to admit to some confusion folks!
The Winipeg Sun has Allison down as the bomb aimer in the crew,as do other posts on this thread, but the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists him as navigator. Could make crew identification even harder than it already is don't you think?
On Caroline's update thread, the picture of the crew in flying clothing throws up one or two useful points. The man on the extreme right has a badge on his upper left arm. In the other photos this was not very distinct and I took it to be a wireless operator's badge but, move back from your screen a couple of feet and look at it again. Is it my imagination, or could that badge have the word CANADA on it?
The man next to him, I believe, is one of the air-gunners, quite possibly the rear gunner. He would be the one member of the crew most likely to be wearing a full Irving flying suit as this chap is. The fellow second from left seems to be similarly attired, although it is not quite so distinct. If that is the case, then we have found Groulx and Du Sablon.
Now look at the photograph that Caroline found of Allison in formal uniform. Compare it with with the facial features of the man third from right in the crew photo.
Could they not be one and the same person? If so, then the navigator's bag on the ground almost in front of him might well bear out the CWGC listing of Allison as the navigator.
This all contributes nothing to identifying the young man in the original photograph found at the crash site, except that it does confirm that crew members probably wore "CANADA" flashes on their uniform jackets.
Over to you my friends.
The Winipeg Sun has Allison down as the bomb aimer in the crew,as do other posts on this thread, but the Commonwealth War Graves Commission lists him as navigator. Could make crew identification even harder than it already is don't you think?
On Caroline's update thread, the picture of the crew in flying clothing throws up one or two useful points. The man on the extreme right has a badge on his upper left arm. In the other photos this was not very distinct and I took it to be a wireless operator's badge but, move back from your screen a couple of feet and look at it again. Is it my imagination, or could that badge have the word CANADA on it?
The man next to him, I believe, is one of the air-gunners, quite possibly the rear gunner. He would be the one member of the crew most likely to be wearing a full Irving flying suit as this chap is. The fellow second from left seems to be similarly attired, although it is not quite so distinct. If that is the case, then we have found Groulx and Du Sablon.
Now look at the photograph that Caroline found of Allison in formal uniform. Compare it with with the facial features of the man third from right in the crew photo.
Could they not be one and the same person? If so, then the navigator's bag on the ground almost in front of him might well bear out the CWGC listing of Allison as the navigator.
This all contributes nothing to identifying the young man in the original photograph found at the crash site, except that it does confirm that crew members probably wore "CANADA" flashes on their uniform jackets.
Over to you my friends.
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