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Messages - ohbodder

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1
I'd have to say not the same person, the nose and hair parting are wrong. Also the girl is reasonably young in the 1940s picture and is a lot more than 40 years older in the 1979 picture.
However if you go back to the original 1940s picture, she looks very similar to the lady at the back left, nose and hair are a better match, even the bit of ear poking out from under her hair.

2
This 'WESTWOOD ROBERT ELLIOT 40' on death would have been a few yrs younger than Isabella but whether he's the correct person is anyone's guess as there has been no previous mention of the middle name 'Elliot'?

"Jane Gibson Westwood b 5 Mar 1863 father Robert Westwood printer Compositor, mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison 1851 December 31st Edinburgh regd by Isabella Morrison mother"

How strange, proclaiming to be married as Westwood then signing as Morrison, she must have been nervous with telling lies & forgot herself when signing  ;D  ::)

Annie

My mistake when typing, it does says Isabella Westwood.


This 'WESTWOOD ROBERT ELLIOT 40' on death would have been a few yrs younger than Isabella but whether he's the correct person is anyone's guess as there has been no previous mention of the middle name 'Elliot'?
In 1851 census there is Robert Elliot Westwood Printer Overseer b Edinburgh living as a lodger in Gorbals.  And in the 1861 census he is Robert E Westwood

Rob

3
I haven't done the arithmetic yet but could this be him which would answer the 'Gibson' query?

Death

WESTWOOD ROBERT ELLIOT 40
GIBSON (mmn)
1869
685/3 169 Canongate

Annie
Could be, it says age 40 which matched the 1861 census est birth of 1829.  He was dead by the time Jane Westwood married Robert Brough in 1881, father Robert Westwood (Printer, compositor) deceased, mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison deceased.
1969 fits nicely with Isabella next marriage to William Churchill 1870
I think we can let Walter Gibson off the hook :)

Rob

4
I noted both Isaac & Jane have the name 'Gibson' attached to their names although not sure what to make of this?
GIBSON WALTER
Tenant Occupier
HOUSE 3/A BUCCLEUCH STREET, ST CUTHBERT'S
1865
VR010000061-
This is around the time of Isaac's birth (1868)

Annie


He is on both the 1861 and 1871 censuses living in Buccleuch Street, married with children (though that proves nothing)

Robert Westwood is on the 1861 census, living with his mother, can't find him in 1871, however:-

I got Jane (Morrison) birth record:-

Jane Gibson Westwood b 5 Mar 1863 father Robert Westwood printer Compositor, mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison 1851 December 31st Edinburgh regd by Isabella Morrison mother.
I assume the 1851 December 31st in the parents column is the date the parents married, well guess what no marriage for those names in 1851, but Isabella married Colin Morrison 31 Dec 1852!
Has Isabella registered the birth herself and passed herself off as a married woman?  Maybe without Robert Westwood knowing?

But why Gibson as well as Westwood in her name?  Was Walter Gibson the real father and Westwood was the fall guy?

You could write a book about this woman, but no one would believe it.

But then we can assume Westwood is Eleanor's father because:-

Eleanor Westwood b 30 Sept 1865 no father on birth certificate but in 1886 an Eleanor Westwood of the same age marries Alexander Wylie, father Robert Westwood mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison.

Still no further in Isaac Gibson Morrison, he seems to disappear too.

Rob

5
"Tenuous possible marriage 1886 Eleanor Westwood to Alexander Wylie mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison (deceased) if so then she is also in the 1891 and 1901 censuses"

I wonder if 'Westwood' is an indication to her father's surname?
Would be good to find a Westwood on a census in same area Isabella was.

Annie

1861 Census
Robert E Westwood
36 Buccleuch St No 2 Back Land
Printer (componter)

:)

6
Not sure if it helps in the way that is needed, but the address for the birth looks to be 52 Stobcross Street, Andeston.

Monica

Thank you Monica, it does look like that once you say it, and that is a real sreet, but I wouldn't have worked that one out.

Isabella is recorded as ‘married’ on the 1861 census. She was a Hat Trimmer, born in Edinburgh. The address is Buccleuch Pend, Buccleuch Street, Edinburgh ( info from Findmypast).
Isobel

Thank you Isobel, she was a "Hate Tormmer" according to Ancestry's transcription  :D

"Tenuous possible marriage 1886 Eleanor Westwood to Alexander Wylie mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison (deceased) if so then she is also in the 1891 and 1901 censuses"

I wonder if 'Westwood' is an indication to her father's surname?
Would be good to find a Westwood on a census in same area Isabella was.

Annie

According to the marriage certificate (1886) her father was Robert Westwood, I haven't looked into him yet, but as I mentioned before Westwood crops up as a middle name in later generations, along with other surnames of previous generations.

"
This is a strange jigsaw, the pieces appear to fit but the pattern doesn't  ::)

Annie
;D Too true.
Still don't know where Jane Morrison came from or went to,
I've got two more Scottish families to do after this one, wish me luck.

Rob


Edit:-  Just spotted a Jane Gibson Westwood b1863 St Giles but that will have to wait until tomorrow.

7
"Got some more credits, and some more confusion.

Elizabeth Isabella Morrison born in 1856, in Anderston, Glasgow
This one is the most solid for proof so far in terms of her children.

Was there an actual address given on the BC, if so, does the address tie in with any other docs?
Do you have any other info. on Isaac?
was there an actual address on Isaac's BC, if so, does it tie in with any other docs?

1865 - Eleanor "illegitimate" on her birth certificate
1868 Isaac his birth certicate has the message about the missing husband


What address is on Eleanor's BC? Does it tie in with any other docs?

Just trying to get to the bottom of this (not easy)!  ::)

Annie

Isabella (jnr) info from birth record
Morrison Elizabeth Isabella, 19-4-1856 1? am?, address is almost unreadable - 52 ? ? ? Street, Anderston, Glasgow (attached pic), father Colin Morrison ?Steward In Vessel?, mother Isabella Morrison maiden name Morrison, informant Colin Morrison father present


Isaac info from birth record
Isaac Gibson Morrison (or Morrison)
10-2-1868 5h ?m ?16, Buccleuch Street Edinburgh, ..message about father.., Isabella Morrison mother, Reg. 2-3-1868 at Edinburgh
He is on the 1871 and 1881 censuses, with Isabella (Snr) but nothing after that.

Eleanor info from birth record
Eleanor Morrison (Illegitimate) 13-9-1865 7h 5m ? ?  Buccleach Street (father) Isabella Morrison Dressmaker, (mother) Isabella Morrison mother, reg. 23-10-1865 at Edinburgh
She is on the 1871 and 1881 censuses, with Isabella (Snr)
Tenuous possible marriage 1886 Eleanor Westwood to Alexander Wylie mother Isabella Westwood MS Morrison (deceased) if so then she is also in the 1891 and 1901 censuses

Buccleach Street is the address on the 1861 census where Isabella (snr) is living with Donald (7) and Isabella (jnr) (5)

Isabella (snr) is a Dressmaker on Eleanor's birth record, and on the marriage of he spinster Isabella to William Churchill.

Rob

8
"This is my wife's side of the family, she is descended through Isabella (jnr) who married Thomas Goodley in 1874.  On her marriage certificate it states, father Colin Morrison Seaman! deceased mother Isabella Morrison MS Morrison"

Did the marriage not give mother Isabella's surname of Churchill, previously Morrison as well as m/s Morrison?

"No, just Morrison MS Morrison"

This would signify Isabella wasn't married to William Churchill.

Annie

How sure are you, you have the correct family?

CHURCHILL WILLIAM & MORRISON ISABELLA 1870
692/2 126 Leith South

Can you tell us what it says regarding Isabella on that marriage & who were the witnesses?

Does it state she's a Widow?

Annie

Got some more credits, and some more confusion.
The 1856 Anderston birth seems correct, though some things still don't fit:-
father - Colin Morrison (looks like Steward on/in vessel) present at birth
mother - Isabella Morrison maiden name Morrison


Onto the 1870 wedding!!!!
William Churchill wireworker age 31, that fits with the 1871 census and Isabella's death record. Address looks like 19 Coburg Street N Leith

However, Isabella
age 32!!, Spinster!!!!, dressmaker 19 Coburg Street N Leith
father John Morrison (joiner) matches Isabella's 1852 marriage
mother Isabella Fraser Morrison MS Cromarty.  Isabella's mother as far as I know MS Fraser, don't know about Cromarty, I'll have to check further.
Witnesses William Sanderson, and what looks like Babllay McKay!  I've not come across either of thos names/families so far.

There is only one William Churchill/Isabella in the 1871 Scotland census and that is the one with Isabella's existing children still with the surname Morrison.

Did Isabella pass herself off as single to get married, and get married in Leith so know one would recognise her? She is Churchill for 1871 and 1881 census, and on her death record.

Two steps forward one step back, but I think we're getting there, slowly.

Rob

9
"This is my wife's side of the family, she is descended through Isabella (jnr) who married Thomas Goodley in 1874.  On her marriage certificate it states, father Colin Morrison Seaman! deceased mother Isabella Morrison MS Morrison"

Did the marriage not give mother Isabella's surname of Churchill, previously Morrison as well as m/s Morrison?

Annie

No, just Morrison MS Morrison

"I had checked Glasgow births but none had the right parents, however I've just spotted an Elizabeth Isabella Morrison born in 1856, in Anderston, Glasgow, parents Colin and Isabelle Morrison"

Sorry for all the questions etc. but I am trying to help as there seems to be a few discrepancies.

Does the BC for E I Morrison state father's name/occ. & mmn?

What were those details?

Annie

I haven't got the birth certificate yet, need to buy some more credits for scotlandspeople first, I wish you could get a subscription like other websites, it's getting expensive having to pay for every document.  Ancestry.co.uk only gives the basic details; names, date and town.

Rob

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