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Messages - MervynG

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: 1851 Census - Bethnal Green
« on: Sunday 01 August 21 18:37 BST (UK)  »
Hi Carl Palmer
Are you still doing Granshaw Genealogy?
If so I'd love to hear from you as I am a  Granshaw also and think a relative in Canada gave me sight of some of your early research.
My Very Best Wishes
Mervyn

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Granshaw origins
« on: Friday 22 March 19 12:52 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Richard,

I've just unearthered another petition where Jean Jacques Gransart sa femme and 6 enfans try to go to Nova Scotia:

115 names are listed on a petition referred to in the Order of Council on 28 May 1762 aiming to go to Nova Scotia. In amongst these are Jean Jacques Gransar sa femme six enfants. They have no idea if any went to anywhere in US. Reference Vol 17 of Colonial Office Papers. (Proceedings of the Huguenot Society of London, Vol. V: pgs180-1)

But in a list dated 22 November 1763 (18 months later) of 173 refugees about to depart Plymouth under Jean Louis Gibet, there are none of the above people. Reference Vol 29 pp212-214 of Colonial Office Papers.

In Hirsch’s book he mentions 371 people settling in Hillsboro in 1764. Reference Vol 29 p375 f of Colonial Office Papers.

He goes on to mention the first group embarking at Plymouth 2 January 1764 after 2 years of negotiations with their agent John Lewis Gibet and arriving Charlestown 12 April 1764. Reference Vol 29 p375 of Colonial Office Papers.

1 person died. Reference Council Journal 1763-4 144-47

Details of provisions, land and rent are preserved. Reference  Council Journal 1763-4 p328 and Vol 29 p160, 378 & 381 of Colonial Office Papers.

Then in 1765  a petition was sent signed by 58 French protestants in London wanting to join Gibet and Boutiton’s colony in Hillsboro. This is the ‘Help was given them and they united …’ group. By now Jean Jacques Grassart is Gransar and has wife but only 4 children. However, Jean Jacques daughter Constance died 3 June 1762 and his daughter Anne Élizabeth on 16 June 1762. So the number of his children would have fallen by two between 28 May 1762 and 1765. I note that only Jean Jacques and his family and Jacques Le Gros and his family  appear on both the 28 May 1762 list for Nova Scotia and the 1765 petition for South Carolina. To compound matters, Jean Jacques second wife Marie Rose Lengrand had died 23 Mar 1755 in child birth of Constance. He hadn’t remarried in 1762. In fact he only re-married his third wife Marguerite Dumé on 19 July 1772 in the Protestant of Templeux le Geurard in Tournai France. Maybe he was with Marguerite in 1762 and referred to Marguerite as his wife? But maybe he didn’t go to South Carolina after all?

I will go to TNA at Kew and dig around but remain convinced he is not the connection to UK Granshaws.

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Granshaw origins
« on: Tuesday 12 March 19 22:15 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Richard

Thank you for your further thoughts which, as ever, are very much appreciated. Two strands now follow for me:

1/ In an effort to properly exclude Jean Jacques Grassart/Gransar from the line, I am now in the process of trying to locate the source of the reference in Arthur Henry Hirsch’s 1928 book The Huguenots of South Carolina as it mentions Jean Jacques Gransar and has the mysterious reference MS Col. Doc. S. C., XX. 261. I assumed it was Colonial Document South Carolina but I can’t find anything beyond Volume 41 1734-35. Do you know what it is and where it is to be found?

You suggested that a Petition to the Board of Trade was declined but according to Hirsch, “Help was given them and they united with the settlers already situated in Hillsboro Township.” That said, conversely and like you too, I see some Grassart/Gransar records in London after this.

Is the document where you see 4 children the Petition? I realise the Petition reads, ‘Jean Jacques Gransar sa femme et quatres Enfans” but according to my records Jean Jacques Grassart had 11 children by two of his 3 wives. By 1765 at least 5 had died, leaving 6 for whom I have no death records:
Anne Reine G 27/9/1751- Quiévy France (who married Armand Joseph Proye 1776) travelled to London
Jacques Joseph G 17/8/58- Quiévy France
Twin Marie Joseph G 15/3/1760- Quiévy France &
Twin Marie Thérèse G 15/3/1760- Quiévy France
Anne Élisabeth G (Gransar) 16/6/1762- London
Élisabeth G (Gransart) 24/10/1764- Bapt at the home of Jacob Bourdillon London

So, did two die before the 1765 petition, or is there a different Jean Jacques who went to South Carolina? Or what? I have been in touch with the Professor who provided the preface to the new edition of Hirsch’s book and to a student of his who has researched the later, scattered and smaller New Bordeaux Huguenots as well as a Boston based professor who wrote on the same subject. I am hoping that any responses they may send provide some South Carolina information which may help see if they went and who went.

So I am inclined to still believe that the Jean Jacques trail is a false one and it is more likely to be that Thomas is the correct ancestor. But I’d like to be able to understand why Jean Jacques, a sister and some of his children floated between Quiévy and London at the same time as a more distant cousin Thomas (great grandson of a brother of Jean Jacques grandfather!)

2/ Who are the Blariau’s (Blarieux/Blariaux) and where do they come from. I can see that a Susanne Blariau was one of 5 children of Jacques Jean Blarieux and Lousie Troufé:
Susanne 9/12/1753-19/2/1850)
Hélène Blarieux 19/1/1756-
Louise Blarieux 17/1/1760-
Élizabeth Blarieux 11/8/1762-
Isaac Blarieux 12/4/1765-)

There is a suggestion that Jacques Jean (surely its Jean Jacques anyway?) was born in 1740 in Cappel, Moselle in France. But that would make him 13 when he had his first daughter Susanne. Also I have checked all the records in Cappel and can find no Blariau/eux records at all from 1720 onwards. I am also looking at Binche in Hainaut Provence in Belgium as that has also been mentioned as the Blariau home area but again nothing found yet.

So who are they and who are the Troufés?

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Granshaw origins
« on: Tuesday 12 March 19 12:36 GMT (UK)  »
Very regrettably I believe Richard's main assumption to be incorrect although much of the Jean Jacques story is true.

Jean Jacques 'missing' child was in fact Jacques Joseph. Sometime after his first wife, Marie Rose Lengrand, died 23/3/1755 a few days after childbirth of Constance Grassart 19/3/1755, he started a relationship with Élizabeth Cartigny. She, however, had had a son baptised before she and Jean Jacques married on 14/1/1759. This is why on the marriage record it says (in French) that their child was legitimised on marriage.

The reason Richard did not pick up on this is that the scribe recorded the event as Jacques Joseph 'fils de Lisabet Quateniye fille de libre condition natif de Saint Hilaire' i.e. Jacques Joseph was born and baptised 17/8/1758  a mere five months before his mother and father married. As we all know, scribes were not always that competent or consistent and always relied on what they heard and thus, Lisabet Quateniye can not be anyone other than Élizabeth Cartigny.

This leads then to the question, who was Thomas? I have now assembled a tree of over 900 Quiévy area Grassarts. Amongst them are 8 Thomas's. Only one fits the timeline. I am happy to share with anyone who is interested.


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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Granshaw origins
« on: Monday 09 April 18 18:17 BST (UK)  »
Hi Richard,

Please can you let me know your sources for all this information?

Apart from the Huguenot library I will also call in at the London Metropolitan Archives as all the other Bethnal Green Spitalfield's registers seem to be there.

I have also found a similar tree on a French site geneanet.org where a Stéphane Desmeuraux evidences the Grassarts.

The stumbling block is that no one I can see can link Thomas Grassart, husband of Susanne(a)(ah) Blariau(ieux) to the Grassart family. His wedding to Susannah has a source but I cannot find his birth, baptism or death or any links at all. You even said, 'likely their son Thomas' but provided no dates. Why do several people make the connection I wonder? According to the French genealogical sites, Grassart is a common name in the north so why and where is the connection and why with this Grassart family?

Stéphane does not list a Thomas as a son of Jean Jaques G and any of his three wives.


I have a small spreadsheet of this era highlighting the differences of opinion but cannot seem to attach it?

Mervyn

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London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests / Re: Granshaw origins
« on: Friday 06 April 18 21:57 BST (UK)  »
Hi Gaie and Richard,

I may be late to the party but as it has been going on for a few hundred years maybe its not too late!

Researching the Granshaws I still feel uncertain about the 1700's. You have both provided quite detailed information which is fascinating. Where did this all come from as I can't find anything of this calibre.

I'm off the Huguenot library next week but would like to find as many sources as I can for the information you have collated and I am happy to collaborate where I can be of help.

Regards

Mervyn Granshaw

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