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I believe I have reached the definitive conclusion about John/Owen Thomas. His mother was Ann Thomas, second child and eldest daughter of Robert and Anne Thomas. Ann gave birth to a child on 22 September 1871 named him John but did not register him until November of that year.

Early in 1872 he became part of her parents' household and was renamed Owen for one of two reasons (a) Robert and Annie's eldest child was named John and (b) they had lost a young child in the mid-1860's whose name was Owen and they renamed John in his memory. The name of the child's father is unknown but oral evidence states that he was originally from Aberystwyth and stayed in Yns Mon for some years. Throughout his upbringing Owen believed his mother was his aunt Ann. There is a reference that Owen was Robert and Anne's grandson.

Owen moved to Liverpool in the 1890's and married Thirza Jane Pearce in 1896. He had seven children, one of whom was my father Henry Thomas.

This raises a problem for other people who believe Owen was their grandfather. There is no evidence to suggest that Owen fathered a child outside his marriage to Thirza. Therefore, anyone who believes he was their grandfather is mistaken. My own conclusion is that the Owen referred to is another member of the Thomas family (possibly a cousin). This will require further research into the history of Robert and Anne's family.

I have also concluded that Ann never married. In the culture of the time it would not have been acceptable to expect a non-family member to take responsibility for another man's child, especially as this may have revealed who the child's real father was. In addition, there was a culture of shame attached to illegitimacy at the time.

My intention is to visit Yns Mon this year to carry out further research.

Regarding the Riding School. If your great gran was born in the Isle of Man, where Thirza Jane was born, it could have been her sister. What was her maiden name?

I don't know if this is of relevance but I just came across it.

www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/surnames.stansfield/70/mb.ashx


Dransfield is a Yorkshire name. The Kirkdale reference is interesting. My wife was brought up in Orwell Road in Kirkdale. Her mother's maiden name was Hughes.

Owen and Thirza were married at Church Church, Kensington in 1896. I've got the exact date somewhere and will try to dig it out.

As stated John/Owen didn't fit into the family unless his mother Ann (he was illegitimate) was related to Robert and Anne Thomas which appears likely. If either of them had a sister or niece named Ann it could explain the discrepancies. Apart from tracing anyone living in the area in 1871 who originated from Aberystwyth everything I know is in my original email. According to uncle Will he knew who Owen's father was but Owen never knew, so he must have been around for some time. A census check may throw some light on it.

I'm not certain that John's name was changed immediately to Owen or whether the 1872 Owen's arrival led to the change. I'm currently trying to trace John/Owen's postwar credits to see if that throws any light on the subject.

I did visit Amwych in the late 1950's and from memory I think there was a connection to a family called Starkey. Unfortunately, the only thing I remember is that one of the family committed suicide by jumping into the bay/harbour soon afterwards. I seem to remember reference to the Hughes family who ran a riding school at Rhosneiger as being distant relatives.