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Hi Andy J2022
You are very correct on romany way of life, but some now do tend to wed outside. People  always refer to Mary as Maria, Corder always called her Mary by her real name, even in his diary he referred to her as Mary, But even to this day many still insist calling her Maria, their child was named after her, Mary Vine, she married a William Vine, and so forth, where she lived out her days in bexleyheath with her family. I really want to thank everyone here with the help they have given to me and pointing me on the right path that I should take on this matter, and also listening to my side of events of what I was told to be the truth. It has really helped me to be able to speak out on this and know that I was heard and was not met with any negativity  towards me, I really do thank you all, Now I shall get the dna ball rolling and see what it reveals  good or bad  either way it will put this  secret that my family have carried for generations to rest, I thank you all God Bless x

Colder had no other siblings, his brother had a son but that baby died same as his brother, The lady was married to a distant descendant of corders, corders skeleton was on display in a london hospital and she wanted it removed and cremated to give him a christian buriel, (what he is not entitled to ) so she went to court to  do this and was granted this request, as she claimed it was not right that it was on display,  and so she had the skeleton cremated,  there was no exhume of a grave for that, and is trying to get the book made of his skin and death mask etc to  cremate also and from what I heard wants to place his ashes in the same cemetry as Mary/Maria, what is wrong. She will not get the death mask or book I know this, and I am happy for them to stay where they are for eternity, On display, I will do the DNA as ive saved the link you have given me and I thank you for that, my aim is to tell my romany father's side of this, why his great great grand mother was murdered and  that the baby lived, and  to make certain what i was  told all of my life is true, if it is not, then my father went to his grave  with not knowing that the story that had been passed down for generations was a lie, and he went to his grave believing it to be true, one that was kept secret within his romany family to protect the child of Mary/Maria and corder. i am not  a young stupid person i am in my mid 60s and it took the removal of corders skeleton for me to speak out, or i would  also of taken this to my grave, but as i stated in my eyes  his skeleton should never of been removed and cremated, it should never of been granted as she is not a distant blood relative,she's a relative only by marriage. Even my old great aunt would tell me  about my family history and the murder of one of us Mary/Maria and how evil corder was. But i shall do this dna, is there  anything i need to request at all? I have asked many questions on dna and the easiest and the fastest way of getting it, but  it would never be granted what i asked, even the book of his skin is so fragile and has been preserved  for hundreds of years dna from that would not be possible, Also i must stress the creamation of the skeleton remains i stumbled on as they were cremated in catford what was not far from where i was at the time. As i stated reading that is what prompt me to speak out, as the saying goes "There is two sides to every story" and in my  eyes so far the one that people know of is mainly fiction and my families one is fact, there is some truth but not all truth, eg Marys/Maria's step mother had a vision=Not true it was her father but the romany men never admit to having psychic gifts only the women did, Corders friends back up the tale the baby was sick and died= he paid them to say this  as he told them that if the authorities find out Mary/Maria had 3 children out of wed lock she would be placed in prison and it was for her protection, so they agreed to lie for him. They never saw the baby at all. I shall let you know how i get on with the dna, and also see if it matches up on the descendants that ive already traced. I intend to go to polstead soon, as i promised my father i would visit Mary/Maria so she is still remembered, I was in Norfolk at the beginning of the year but never had the time to  go there, if there is anything you would like to know on what i have been told on this  maybe message me and i shall tell you everything i  know. And then maybe you  can see from my eyes as to why i am doing this, and wanting the truth to be told, not to be told to forget it by people whom do not understand the values a romany has where family are concerned . Sorry if this sounds a bit jumbled up but it early hours of the morning and i am quite tired .

Yes I have considered taking a DNA test, Ive even enquired about it to a person on how to do this, but the replies I received were not good, I came away feeling that my family history will never come to light, what is claimed to be the truth by them,  I am a decendant of the child, If what my father  claimed to be true, as the child (of William and Mary aka Maria) was my father's Great Grand Mother.

Interesting that Mary Ann was appearing in 'Maria and the Red Barn.' This was a popular murder of 1827 Suffolk where Maria Marten was murdered by her lover William Corden and her body bried in the barn, so called because of its partly red-tiled roof.
There were even Staffordshire flatbacks - mantlepiece ornaments - of the barn, so popular was the event.
Corden was eventually caught and hanged.

AJ

Maria's real name was Mary Vine, Corder always called her Mary never Maria, she used the name Maria when she entertained the local men

I was brought up with the knowledge of this story all my life by my Romany family, only the first born was exposed to what we know as the truth on this, and being the first born I was told of this from a child all my life, My family have taken the truth to their grave till now, as my father laid dying he mentioned the murder three days before his death that i was brought up with,and told me to do what i feel i need to do on this old murder, so i shall start now.
Maria's name as some call her was not her name, she was brought over with her father  as a child, they came with many other Romanys to work on the farms, the squire where they settled in polstead told them they must all register at ipswich in the name of William Vine for the males and Mary Vine for the females, As that would be easier for him to remember, Mary's father after registering was given a different name by the squire due to his experience of his work, thats where the name Marten came into this. Mary when she got older decided to call herself Maria when she would entertain the men by singing and dancing for them, Yes she had a son at an early age by a married man, Yes she did get pregnant by one of the squires son's and had his son but that child died, it was when the squire and his son died that Mary picked up with William Coulder the squires last son, whom promised her the world but treated her badly, she became pregnant by him and gave birth to a daughter, where Coulder convinced her that she faces prison for having another child out of wed lock and she must give the baby up, But they shall marry and when things have settled she can get the baby back, but to say to people the baby was sick and died, Mary gave the child to relatives whom took the child to Cork in Ireland, when Coulder thought the coast was clear he avoided Mary, and they made arrangements to meet in the barn, where he told her he would not marry her, an argument started and Mary stated she was going to expose Coulder to his mother and about their daughter and how  the baby was entitled to the estate being  of his blood, and she will get the baby back, this is the reason he murdered her as he did not want a Romany bastard child having a claim on what was his. (Thats why NO body of the baby was ever found)It was her father whom had the visions and Romany men would not admit they have psychic abilities so  the current wife of Marys father claimed she saw the visions, No body of the child was ever found due to the fact the child never died, Coulder being the nasty evil person he was still denied his child up till he was hanged, thinking he would get away with the murder and that the child had gone, The child was brought back to the UK but in those days DNA did not exist and Coulder was now dead, So the relatives travelled down with the child to Bexleyheath where she always knew about her parents and what her father did to her mother, she was nicknamed "Queenie" but named Mary Vine after her mother, where she lived out her days never forgiving her father for the evil he did, and knowing he even tried to blame one of their own for her mothers death, Even till this day Coulder has been cursed to hell and his death mask and book in his skin shall always remain on display, he deserves no mercy at all, Now ask me how I know all of this? I shall tell you Mary Vine and William Coulder were my Fathers Great Great Grand parents. And all of Coulders assets is classed as Blood money in our eyes as he took the life of one of our own and will never be forgiven for this.