1
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Friday 16 June 17 22:28 BST (UK) »
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2
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Wednesday 05 June 13 02:13 BST (UK) »
I have just noticed that in the book "To Prove I'm Not Forgot" by Sylvia Barnard ( a book about Beckett street Cemetery) there is a reference on page 94 to the incident with George Crowthers Swing Boat, the child who died is mentioned and a brief description of the events, however George is not mentioned by name. Strange I have read this book many times and have just noticed that a part of our family history is contained within its covers!
Regards to all, Gary.
Regards to all, Gary.
3
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Tuesday 12 February 13 20:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul,
I think on one of the Certificates it does state that James Reid was married to a Beveridge, this may be the same Beveridge that was born at Dysart, but I didn't go too much into that Family.
Hector was not injured at Toulouse, he seems to have got the injury while his unit was stationed at Kilkenny in Ireland, so I have only three options 1) injured in some brawl with another soldier, 2) injured in a training accident, or 3) injured in some encounter with hostile locals ? this injury prevented him from deploying with his unit to the Battle of Waterloo : (
Hope this helps,
Regards Gary.
I think on one of the Certificates it does state that James Reid was married to a Beveridge, this may be the same Beveridge that was born at Dysart, but I didn't go too much into that Family.
Hector was not injured at Toulouse, he seems to have got the injury while his unit was stationed at Kilkenny in Ireland, so I have only three options 1) injured in some brawl with another soldier, 2) injured in a training accident, or 3) injured in some encounter with hostile locals ? this injury prevented him from deploying with his unit to the Battle of Waterloo : (
Hope this helps,
Regards Gary.
4
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Wednesday 30 January 13 12:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Paul, nice to hear from you once again, I think over the last few years we have all contributed to the unfolding of the Crowther story, its good to get other peoples different takes on our own thoughts as to how we piece together the info that we have uncovered to give us a clearer picture of events.
I was of the opinion that John was missing from the 1871 Census because he was also in Prison! however I have no proof that that was the case, but given the fact that he is also absent from the 1881 and 1891 Census perhaps he had become separated from his wife.
I was unable to find John in the 1881 & 1891 Census years, has anyone actually found his entry for those years ?
John MacKenzie died at the home of Hannah Godfrey, she was the Daughter of George Crowther (see the Will) This is the Hannah Gallagher (First marriage) and Godfrey (second Marriage).
She was still living at 31 East Street in the 1901 Census.
When you refer to Johns other family, have you found some new info ?
Regards and happy new Year to everyone, Gary.
I was of the opinion that John was missing from the 1871 Census because he was also in Prison! however I have no proof that that was the case, but given the fact that he is also absent from the 1881 and 1891 Census perhaps he had become separated from his wife.
I was unable to find John in the 1881 & 1891 Census years, has anyone actually found his entry for those years ?
John MacKenzie died at the home of Hannah Godfrey, she was the Daughter of George Crowther (see the Will) This is the Hannah Gallagher (First marriage) and Godfrey (second Marriage).
She was still living at 31 East Street in the 1901 Census.
When you refer to Johns other family, have you found some new info ?
Regards and happy new Year to everyone, Gary.
5
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Wednesday 18 April 12 19:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Alex,
I had already seen the link that you have included, all that site does is repeat the transcription as it is, it does not try to make sense of it! The Census does make mistakes, and I can see how there can be more than one way to interpret this entry (given the lack of other proofs), but I think we should avoid making rash assumptions with regards to the Berman family adopting the name Crowther, I can see no evidence for this, if they did why do we not see some evidence in the 1901 and 1911 Census.
Best regards
Gary
I had already seen the link that you have included, all that site does is repeat the transcription as it is, it does not try to make sense of it! The Census does make mistakes, and I can see how there can be more than one way to interpret this entry (given the lack of other proofs), but I think we should avoid making rash assumptions with regards to the Berman family adopting the name Crowther, I can see no evidence for this, if they did why do we not see some evidence in the 1901 and 1911 Census.
Best regards
Gary
6
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Wednesday 18 April 12 00:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Alex,
I have had the time to look at the 1891 Census entry for the Russian Crowthers, and all is not as it appears!
The entry is for No 25 Mason Street, Leedsthe Census Enumerator seems to have got himself in a bit of a muddle, the correct details are...
Harris Berman Head
Rosy Berman Wife
Barnet Berman Son
Rachel Berman Dau
Louis Crowther Lodger
Malkie Frost Lodger
The enumerator has crossed over the dito's and continued with the same error for place of Birth, thus making it look like Louis Crowther was from Russia.
The Transcription error is easy to see if you get the chance to see a copy the actual entry.
So it does not look like any Crowthers were Born in Russia and There isn't any Jewish connection.
Hope the above is of help.
Best regards
Gary.
I have had the time to look at the 1891 Census entry for the Russian Crowthers, and all is not as it appears!
The entry is for No 25 Mason Street, Leedsthe Census Enumerator seems to have got himself in a bit of a muddle, the correct details are...
Harris Berman Head
Rosy Berman Wife
Barnet Berman Son
Rachel Berman Dau
Louis Crowther Lodger
Malkie Frost Lodger
The enumerator has crossed over the dito's and continued with the same error for place of Birth, thus making it look like Louis Crowther was from Russia.
The Transcription error is easy to see if you get the chance to see a copy the actual entry.
So it does not look like any Crowthers were Born in Russia and There isn't any Jewish connection.
Hope the above is of help.
Best regards
Gary.
7
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Sunday 15 April 12 12:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Alex,
An interesting item for your first post!
I have two questions, what birth year did the Russian born Crowthers have ?
Also what mtDNA Haplogroup do the Crowthers belong to, is it N1a or N1b.
Best regards
Gary
An interesting item for your first post!
I have two questions, what birth year did the Russian born Crowthers have ?
Also what mtDNA Haplogroup do the Crowthers belong to, is it N1a or N1b.
Best regards
Gary
8
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Sunday 22 January 12 11:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Terry,
George William Enoch was born Dec 23rd 1884 at 10 Stainburn Square and died Dec 4th 1885 at 17 Stainburn Square, there are two entries in the death registers One for a George William Enoch and one for a George William Crowther, so William must have said he was the father, thats why the entry was later changed from Enoch to Crowther.
As for John there is a 15 month gap where he could have been born if he was Hannah Enoch's son, it is strange that it looks like the birth was not registered given that after 1875 there were prosecutions for non registration of a Birth.
Best regards
Gary
George William Enoch was born Dec 23rd 1884 at 10 Stainburn Square and died Dec 4th 1885 at 17 Stainburn Square, there are two entries in the death registers One for a George William Enoch and one for a George William Crowther, so William must have said he was the father, thats why the entry was later changed from Enoch to Crowther.
As for John there is a 15 month gap where he could have been born if he was Hannah Enoch's son, it is strange that it looks like the birth was not registered given that after 1875 there were prosecutions for non registration of a Birth.
Best regards
Gary
9
Travelling People / Re: Crowthers, Leeds, Stainburn sq, Publican
« on: Friday 20 January 12 17:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Guys,
I have just had another look at the 1911 Census and it states that during the marriage of Margaret and William Crowther they had 9 children, this would mean that John the eldest child was to Margaret and not to Hannah Enoch, as we were wondering when we met last summer.
William had one child with Hannah Enoch (George William)
and 9 with Margaret...
John, William, Euphemia, George, Ben, Robert, Hannah, Mary Ann, and Harry .
I hope that this is enough proof as to the true mother of John Crowther.
Best regards
Gary
I have just had another look at the 1911 Census and it states that during the marriage of Margaret and William Crowther they had 9 children, this would mean that John the eldest child was to Margaret and not to Hannah Enoch, as we were wondering when we met last summer.
William had one child with Hannah Enoch (George William)
and 9 with Margaret...
John, William, Euphemia, George, Ben, Robert, Hannah, Mary Ann, and Harry .
I hope that this is enough proof as to the true mother of John Crowther.
Best regards
Gary