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Topics - Anne W

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The Common Room / " Presented at Church" ?

« on: Tuesday 24 January 17 20:36 GMT (UK) »

Does anyone know what the term " Presented at Church" means? Is it like Confirmation? My enquiry is about the Church of England in Jersey.

Three of my Rose family's children were baptised privately as babies and all three appear in the Parish records as being " Presented at Church" on the same day, 18th October 1818. They would have been aged 16, 11 and 8 on this date.

Trouble is one of them , Richmond Paton Rose born 1807, I have as dying as a baby. Certainly there is a burial for a Richmond Rose in 1807. Does this new discovery mean he didn't die at all but was alive in 1818 to be " presented at church"?

That of course would mean there was another Richmond Rose who was buried in 1807 at St Helier Jersey and that would be a bombshell!!

Australia / Convict Identity

« on: Wednesday 29 April 15 01:38 BST (UK) »

Does anyone think that it would be possible for an Irishman to be tried and convicted in Yorkshire and get away with claiming his " native place" as Yorkshire? Lying in other words. The gentleman I am researching would have a very good reason for hiding his true identity.

There was no identity documentation back then and I presume people were simply asked to provide their place of birth without having to prove it.

I'm just wondering if anyone thinks it would be possible for my Irishman to get away with it!

Australia / Honora/Nora YOUNG & Lancelot COSTELLO

« on: Sunday 01 April 12 07:32 BST (UK) »

Hi all,
I've hit a brickwall trying to trace Honora Young who married Lancelot Costello in 1852 in Ballarat. I can find no birth or death for her or any immigration records.

The couple had two children JOHN born 1855 in Ballarat and LANCELOT born 1857 also in Ballarat. Lancelot senior died in 1859 in Ballarat so there is a good chance that Honora remarried, but a can't find any evidence of this.

Lancelot Costello was an Irish convict from Tipperary, convicted of Manslaughter and transported on the St Vincent arriving in 1837. He got his TOL for the Goulburn area.

Lancelot Costello and Honora Young's son John end up in Bourke NSW , where he lived for 5 years with my Ann Hart/Magee's daughter. I am trying to find out if Honorah Young is any relation to Bridget Young, who married Richard Hart in 1852 in Gundagai and was the mother of Steve Hart who was a member of the Kelly gang.

Lancelot can be Lanty and Honora can be Nora, just to make things interesting! Any help with this would be great

Bye
Anne

Australia / Is this the father of Steve HART?

« on: Wednesday 16 November 11 08:55 GMT (UK) »

Hi all,
Steve Hart was a member of the Kelly Gang killed at Glenrowan in 1880 along with his good friend Dan Kelly, brother of Ned. Not much is known about his family and I need the opinion of the clever people at RootsChat as to whether I've stumbled upon, by accident, the identity of his father. This is the first time I've researched an actual historical figure and it has made me nervous!

Steve Hart's parents were Richard Hart and Bridget Young. They married in Gundagai in 1852. Richard Hart's Death Certificate says he was born in 1819 in Dublin and he was a Catholic. Newspaper accounts from the time say that Richard Hart was an Irish Immigrant who originally came from NSW. Richard and Bridget had several children, one of which was a son called Nicholas and also a daughter called Julia, Steve Hart's brother and sister.

My husband's gggrandmother was Ann Hart, born in Dublin and transported in 1833 aboard the "Caroline" for " Picking Pockets". Two male Harts were also transported from Dublin for the same offence around the same time - Nicholas Hart, 1833 "Royal Admiral" and Richard Harding alias Hart, 1835 "Lady McNaughton". All three Harts were born in Dublin were Catholic and the descriptions given in their Certificates of Freedom are very very similar. All three were short people, had dark brown hair and grey eyes. All three had similar tattooing on their left hands. I believe that Nicholas, Richard and Ann Hart were brothers and sister.

Richard Harding alias Hart was assigned to John Kennedy Hume, brother of Hamilton Hume the explore, at Gunning near Yass. He received his TOL for Yass in 1840 and his Certificate of Freedom in Yass in 1842. He was born in Dublin in 1817 and was a Catholic. I THINK he could very well be the man who married Bridget Young and became the father of Steve Hart.

So far I haven't found any record for any other Richard Hart who could be the man who married Bridget Young. There are plenty of other Richard Harts, but they are either too old or too young or not Catholic or not born in Dublin. There is also the question of children's names. Steve Hart's parents called a son Nicholas and a daughter Julia. I believe Richard Harding/ Hart's brother was Nicholas and Julia was a name that came down through Ann Hart's family. But still not much to go on.

Any opinion on this would be most welcome. Even to tell me I'm crazy!

Anne

Surrey / 1800's Street Map

« on: Wednesday 14 July 10 05:53 BST (UK) »

Could anyone point me in the direction of a good street map from the first half of the 1800's? The address I'm after is 5 Chilton Street, Lower Road, Rotherhithe, Surrey in 1853. I've had no trouble finding Lower Road but Chilton Street apparently doesn't exist! I've tried ChiLLon St and ChiTTon St with no luck.
I'd also like to know where Symons Wharf was located. ( hopefully REALLY close to Chilton ST!)

Thank you for your time
Anne

Armed Forces / Royal Navy Widows Pensions 1800's

« on: Wednesday 14 July 10 05:43 BST (UK) »

I'm wondering if anyone out there knows exactly what year the Royal Navy began paying Widow's Pensions to deceased officer's widows. My officer was a Purser, a Warrant Officer, in the RN from 1799 to 1806. He died in 1828. In the 1841 and 1851 Census his widow is described as living on "Ind" means.
When she died in 1853 her son applied to the Admiralty for "arrears of widows pension". The actual cash amount he is claiming is left blank on the form.
I'm wondering how long she could have been on the pension and whether the "Ind" in the censuses refers to a pension or to private income.

Thank you for your time
Anne

London and Middlesex / Princess St Westminster 1829

« on: Thursday 27 May 10 11:50 BST (UK) »

Please forgive an ignorant Sydneysider who has never been to London in her life, but if someone died giving their abode as Princess St, Westminster in 1829, where exactly would that be? I'm having trouble finding a street map for that time period . I've found a Princess St near Waterloo, but wouldn't that be the wrong side of the river to be in Westminster?
Any help would be great.

Anne

Armed Forces / Warrant Officers - 18th & 19th Century

« on: Tuesday 19 January 10 02:44 GMT (UK) »

I'm researching Robert Reginald Richmond Rose who received his first Warrant as Purser in the Royal Navy 18th of April 1799. In September 1809 he was appointed as Deputy Barracks Master in the United Kingdom, a post that was by Warrant from the King ( I believe). I'm not sure if this post meant he had joined the army or not.
I'm wondering what was involved in obtaining these Warrants. What were the qualifications and would he have needed good references etc . Would he have needed friends in high places? I suppose Warrants weren't handed out to just anyone!
Any help most appreciated
Anne

The Common Room / Impossible Brickwall

« on: Sunday 17 January 10 01:18 GMT (UK) »

Hi All,
Before I give up once and for all on the eternal mystery of my husband's 4x greatgrandfather, Robert Reginald Richmond Rose, I thought I'd lay out what I have to see if any clever person out there could perhaps spot something I have missed or maybe have some suggestions. I think it is impossible to solve, but here goes-

25th December 1800- Robert Reginald Richmond Rose married Ann Waters at St Helier Jersey. Robert gave his birth place as Bath, Somerset and he is the Purser on HMS Pelican. Ann Waters was born at St Helier.

Robert and Ann's children were ELIZABETH b 1801 at Longueville, Manor Jersey MARY b 1802 also at Longueville, RICHMOND PATON b 1807 at St Helier JANE b c1811 GEORGE b c1815 and ANN b 1819 at Mt Orquiele Castle Jersey. Ann is my husbands 3x greatgrandmother. Ann married Thomas Griffith in 1840 and immigrated to Australia with him and their children in 1848.

In the early 1900's Robert's Australian born grandson William C Griffith tried very hard to establish the identity of his grandfather. Letters have survived from this time, replies from the Admiralty to William C 's inquires about his grandfather's naval service. The Admiralty letters seem to confirm that Robert RR was in the Navy from 1799-1806 , but maddeningly only refer to him as "this officer" . When I tried to order the log books of the Pelican for 1800 form the NA UK's Digital ordering service, referencing Purser Robert or Richmond Rose (or any combination of the above), they told me they couldn't find him!

The problem is his name. I've traced his career and he is Robert Reginald Richmond at his marriage; Richmond Rose when he is appointed Deputy Barracks Master in 1809: Richmond Rose aged 51 in General Don's Muster of Jersey in 1815 ( no profession beside his name) and Robert Richmond Rose in 1822 when he started a newspaper on Jersey called "Rose's Loyal Jersey Observer". I have a copy of the letter he wrote to Robert Peel, then Home Secretary, asking for his endorsement.

William C Griffith became convinced that Robert RR Rose was the illigitimate son of the Duke of Richmond and that there was money in Chancery in London owed to his descendants. No explanation has survived as to how he came to this conclusion and the only proof is an old newspaper ad from Lloyds of London asking Australian Griffith's to get in contact with them to "their advantage". This is the family legend that seems destined to go on for another generation, as I can't solve the mystery of who exactly Robert RR Rose was !

I'm ready to light a bonfire with all my notes. It's impossible !

Anne