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Topics - damienb

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Census and Resource Discussion / Name changes?

« on: Thursday 13 September 12 13:51 BST (UK) »

Is it common for people to change their names in the census - I can see where yuo might get variations (e.g.John/Jack) but I mean a totally different name!

What I have is:

1911: Patrick Carr (55), wife Catherine (32) - he's a doc labourer (marrried 1878)

1901: Patrick (48), Catherine (42) - doc labourer with children -Catherine (13), Michael (11), Martin (

adn Anne (3) His age is a little out but within acceptable margins and the children are right so it's him!

1891: Patrick (35), Catherine (32) doc labourer; children:James (12), John P (10), Mary E (

, William (5), Catherine (3) and Michael (1)

All OK so far but no sign that I can see in 1881 census. What I did find is:
Nathaniel (24), Catherine (220 - general labourer with children: James (3) and John (5 months)

This ties is with what he did, his wife the children I expected (James and John 10yrs younger than 1891) but it's Nathaniel... And no Nathaniel birth details that tie in (1855 +/-5). Could he be Patrick and why might he have changed his name. Marriage certificate (1878) has Patrick (father James, mariner, deceased) and Patrick thereafter but no 1881!

no indication he was in the military (and possibly abroad)... Any thoughts/suggestions as I'm a bit stumped!

TIA
Damien

Lancashire / Carrs Liverpool

« on: Tuesday 26 July 11 13:39 BST (UK) »

May seem a strange question but was it common for people to change their christian name...?

I have in my tree Patrick Carr (b c1856) m Catherine Kelly (b c1858) in 1878. I have them in the 1891 census with children James (b1879), John (b1881),... but no mention of them in the 1881 census. However, I did find:

Nathaniel Carr (b c1857), Catherine (b C1859), James (b 1878) and John (b1881) and no mention of Nathaniel Carr in 1891 census. No sign of a deceased Nathaniel in the intervening 10 years either. Could he have changed his name? If so why? He was Patrick in 1878 (marriage) and again in 1891 if Nathaniel is the same person...

Any suggestions welcome!

Damien

PS On the marriage certificate Patrick's father is listed as James Carr, mariner, deceased. I have a James (mariner) but no son Patrick I can find or Patrick but not father James (mariner)!

PPS Prior to the marriage (according to the marriage certificate) both Patrick and Catherine lived in Sawney Pope St in Liverpool. Does anyone know of any records for specific streets...?

Lancashire / Name change

« on: Wednesday 27 October 10 14:07 BST (UK) »

Was it common for people to change their names. Bit of a conundrum and a change of name would explain it but why would they...? Or am I missing something really obvious? Quite possible!!

What I have is this:

I have my wife's grandfather John Carr and his siblings sorted. His parents were Patrick Carr and Catherine Kelly, married in 1878 so I know (roughly!) when they were born.

In 1891 I have Patrick, his wife Catherine and children James, John P, Mary E, Catherine, Michael and William which is fine.

1881 - no sign of Patrick and Catherine. However, I do have a Nathaniel Carr, wife Catherine and children James and John - dates are about right but could this be Patrick? If so, why might he have changed his name?

Only other explanation I can think of is if they weren't in England at the time or somehow missed being included in the census. Sound right or am I missing something really obvious?

Any help/pointers much appreciated.

Damien

Lancashire / Missing people

« on: Wednesday 06 December 06 13:01 GMT (UK) »

I have two related problems that, hopefully, somebody can help with - at least point me in the right direction

I have the marriage certificate (16/6/1878) of Patrick Carr and Catherine Kelly, both of Sawney Pope Street in Liverpool. I have them in the 1891 and 1901 censuses with the info correct as far as family history is remembered. What I don't have is any sign of them in the 1881 census. Ages given are 21 and 19 respectively indicating they were born in 1857 and 1859. Later censuses indicate that the first child (James) was born in 1879. I know dates are notoriously inaccurate but even bracketing the dates turns up nothing (or I'm missing something obvious). Catherine's family were originally from Ireland so they may have gone to visit but seems a little unlikely.

I have found a Nathaniel married to Catherine with son James but I can think of no reason why his name would have changed (and back again in later censuses). Any suggestions? All much appreciated.

Related to this, the certificate lists Patrick's father as James Carr (deceased), Mariner. Searching back through the earlier censuses I've found a James Carr (mariner and ship's engineer) but no sign of a son Patrick. I've found another with a son Patrick but no mention anywhere of being a sailor.

All very confusing. As I said, any/all suggestions welcome.

Damien

Census and Resource Discussion / Ages

« on: Friday 24 November 06 11:21 GMT (UK) »

I know that ages in the census are to be taken with a pinch of salt but just how far would you stretch the age difference?

I have Catherine Kelly marrying Patrick Carr in 1878 - ages given as 19 and 21 which would have Catherine born in 1859. Father is listed as Michael, labourer.

In the 1861 census I found, living in Bent St. Michael, dock labourer (30), wife Ann (29), Mary (7) and Catherine (2) which fits nicely.

In 1871 (same street) I found Michael, labourer, (48), Ann (46), Mary (17) and Catherine (12). Ages for the children is spot on but is a difference of 18 and 17 years for Michael and Ann a bit much?

It's the only Michael/Catherine combination I've found so far that seems to fit but I'm a bit worried that the age difference means they're two separate families and the names are a coincidence. Going to 1881, what (rough) age do I go for

TIA for any advice

Damien

Lancashire / valid assumptions?

« on: Friday 28 April 06 13:52 BST (UK) »

Some advice/guidence needed...

I have the marriage certificate for my wife's g-grandfather

Patrick Carr (father James, deceased mariner) married Catherine Kelly (father Michael) in 1878 - both from Sawney Pope St in Liverpool.

In the 1881 census I found, in the same street:

Michael (c1821), wife Ann (c1831) and children Michael (c1856, Ireland) and Ellen (c1967, L'pool) - would it be reasonable to assume this is the same family?

Going back to 1871 I found (Bent St):

Michael (c1823), Ann (c1825), Catherine (c1859) John (c1865), Mary (c1854), William (c1862)

Parents and Catherine are there but not the others. Plus, all born in L'pool which doesn't tie in with 1881 son Michael being born in Ireland. Any chance it's the same family or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Damien

Lancashire Lookup Requests / James Carr

« on: Tuesday 24 January 06 13:17 GMT (UK) »

On the Carr side of the family now and I've hit a bit of a dead end so maybe somebody could help or point me in the right direction.

The story:
My father-in-law was born just before the war (1 of 10).
His father, John P Carr (born c1881) married Margaret Casey. I've found him in various censuses with sublings:

James (1879), Mary E (1883), William (1886), Catherine (1888, married Albert Westhead), Michael (1890, married

Batt, children Richard and Rose), Martin (1893) and Ann (1898, married Billy Fay)

Their father is Patrick Carr (c1856) and he married Catherine Kelly (both from Sawney Pope St) in 1878. 1881 census shows William Carr (head) and Ann Carr (boarder) living in Sawney Pope St. I'm assuming he was an older brother but not sure. Reference to a William with a wife Ann elsewhere so perhaps his wife and not a boarder?

Marriage certificate lists the father as James Carr, mariner (deceased) and that's about all I have on him - the dead end!

The census lists Patrick as being born in Liverpool but a search of the BDM only turns up one for that year, born in Whitehaven.

No trace of Patrick in the 1861 census (also checked for William) but couldn't find a family with both and none with James as the head. Being a mariner I suppose he could have been at sea when the census was taken? Any way to check?

I've also found no trace of James' death in the BDM - could he have died at sea as he was a mariner? Would it be recorded anywhere?

TIA
Damien

Mayo / Michael Kelly

« on: Thursday 22 September 05 08:41 BST (UK) »

I'm trying to find out something (anything

) about my wife's g-g-grandparents who, as far as I can work out, originally came from Mayo (or at least her g-g-grandfather.

Her g-grandmother was Catherine Kelly (b c1859) and she married Patrick Carr (b c1856) in Liverpool in 1878. On the marriage certificate it states they were both living in Sawney Pope St. and her father is listed as Michael Kelly, labourer.

The 1881 UK census lists a Michael Kelly (and Carrs) living in Sawney Pope St so I'm assuming they are the couple's family.

Information in the census is:
Michael Kelly, musician, born about 1821 in Co. Mayo, Ireland
Ann Kelly (wife), born about 1831 in Ireland
Michael Kelly (son), sailor, born Ireland about 1856
Ellen (daughter), born Liverpool about 1867
Not determined yet if Catherine was born in Ireland or Liverpool.
May possibly (?) be another older daughter, Mary - witnesses was Mary Whittaker so possibly Catherine's sister?

Other families from Ireland living with them - Richard Cain, Ellen Haley, Paul and Christiane Simpson and Fanny Doyle - possibly from Mayo too?

From the dates it seems that they moved from Ireland between 1856 and 1867.

Any/all help much appreciated

Damien

Cork / Casey/Regan - possibly Kinsale

« on: Thursday 01 September 05 13:14 BST (UK) »

I'm doing some research for my father-in-law before a planned trip to Kinsale sometime next year.

His father was John Patrick Carr (born 1880) and he married Margaret Casey (born 1890) in Liverpool. She originally came from Kinsale. She had three sisters (Cissie, Eileen and May) and two (maybe three) brothers that we know of (Jack [John}, Edward and possibly James.

Her father was James Casey and her mother Nora/Norah Reagan (or variant!). I've ordered a copy of JP and Margaret's marriage certificate and that will identify provide her fathers christian name but any other help/suggestions much welcomed.

Damien