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Roscommon / MICHAEL DOLAN AND MARY ANNE BROWNE
« on: Tuesday 16 August 22 07:02 BST (UK)  »
Just been adding up some dates of my great grandparents based on documents found on the internet in an effort to calculate their ages at the time of their deaths. I am hoping a fresh pair or eyes might spot something that is not correct, and/or anyone who is researching the same line that have more accurate details. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have not been able to find an exact birth date for MICHAEL DOLAN of Arm, Ballinapark, Roscommon or his wife MARY ANNE (BROWNE) DOLAN of Brownhill, townland of Lissalway, Roscommon to confirm their correct age at their time of death. The earliest documents are their marriage certificate, dated 10th June 1880, which lists Michael as 26 years old and Mary Anne as 24 years old at that time. If this were correct, and allowing for a year either way depending on a birthday before or after that date, Michael would have been born in 1854 and Mary Anne in 1856 (two years difference in age).(two years difference in age).

In the Census of Ireland taken on the 31st March 1901, both of them were listed as being 40 years of age, indicating that Michael and Mary Anne would have been both born in 1861 (no difference in age).

Ten years later in the Census of Ireland taken on the 2nd April 1911, Michael was listed as 58 years old and Mary Anne as 55 years old. If this were correct, and again allowing for a year either way, Michael would have been born in 1853 and Mary Anne in 1856 (three years difference in age).

In the column “completed years of marriage” they wrote 30 years, which would be 1881, just one year more than the date on their actual marriage certificate. As the marriage certificate is a legal docment and the date registered four days later on the 14th June 1880, it would be fair to say that on the 1911 census form, Michael put 30 years married as a round figure. Their first born child, Peter Dolan, was born in 1881.

The Old Age Pensions Act 1908 introduced a non-contributory pension for ‘eligible’ people aged 70 and over. It came into law in January 1909 in Ireland and as a result, there were a lot of intentional mis-reporting or “age-heaping”, apparently expecting this to help secure an earlier claim for a pension, which certainly accounts for the larger discrepancies in age, and the 6 year increase, as Michael and Mary Anne also took advantage of gaining an allowance once they reached 70, in a time where birth certificates, or documented proof of age, were not required.

When Michael died on the 10th October 1938, he was listed as being 92 years old, which would mean he was born in 1846 and when Mary Anne died on the 14th March 1937 she was listed as 74 years of age on her death certificate, which means she would have been born in 1863, presuming these ages are correct and again allowing for one year. However such details are not always accurate as birth certificates and such documents were not freely available to compare and often the family, or those who were present at death, were never exactly sure of the correct age of their parents and the age on the death certificate was more assumed than exact. The headstone in Castlerea Graveyard bears no age either but the above age gap of 17 years is certainly incorrect.

2
Roscommon / DEATHS
« on: Thursday 11 May 17 15:40 BST (UK)  »
I have been on the irishgenealogy.ie site a lot lately and searching the civil records for the Castlerea district which covers Kiltullagh and Carrick, Ballinlough and Rabbitboro. There are a lot of images available and I have got lots of great finds.
However I have found three that are definitely my line and they are all deaths with no image available only the return numbers.
KATE CULLEN Death 1889 - age 31, Returns Quarter 4, Returns Vol No 4 and Returns Page No. 79.
JOHN LYONS Death 1879 - age 39, Returns Quarter 2, Returns Vol No 4 and Returns Page No. 108.
JOHN LYONS Death 1869 - age 49, Returns Quarter 4, Returns Vol No 19 and Returns Page No. 89.
Can I get the info on these three from any other source?

3
Roscommon / LYONS/GREALY, Carrick, Roscommon
« on: Monday 08 May 17 11:53 BST (UK)  »
I have a copy of the information contained on the marriage certificate of my great-grandparents on my father's side – JOHN T. LYONS and MARGARET GREALLY who were married at Granlahan Catholic Church, County Roscommon on the 16th June 1866. John’s residence at the time was listed as Carrick and Margaret was listed as being from Rabbitboro. The marriage was performed by Fr. P. McLoughlin and John Greally was the groomsman with Mary Greally as bridesmaid. John Lyons was listed as aged 23 and Margaret was 20 years old. John’s father was named on the certificate as John Lyons and the father of the bride was named Bernard Greally, with an occupation of Tailor. The fact that John Lyons had John Greally as his groomsman could possibly mean he had no brother. Perhap's John was a brother of his new bride?
Counting back CIRCA 20 (born around 1846?) and 23  (born around 1843?) respective years on the freely available Kiltullagh parish births, I am unable to find either for those dates - although the written entries are hard to make out. Even allowing for incorrect ages on the cert, I have gone a year or two before and after but cannot find either of them, yet these records for Kiltullagh parish are complete and oneline in written form. Can anyone help, or are there online records available too.
Also was it normal to include the occupation of the father of the bride, as mentioned above.
Both Lyons and Greally were common names in the Carrick/Rabbitboro neighbourhoods at this time and there were many Lyons who were no doubt cousins living in close proximity to eachother.
Any help in solving this would be greatly appreciated.

4
Roscommon / Thomas Grogan and Family from Beagh, Roscommon
« on: Sunday 17 July 16 09:50 BST (UK)  »
Here is the second of my greatgrandparents on my mother's side of the family.
As with my Dolan side, the discrepancies between the 1901 and 1911 are staggering.
However my main goal in posting this is to find other Grogan researchers who may be linked to my side of the family and/or someone who has the transcripts of the Beagh or Kilteevan births or marriages and may be able to confirm which dates are correct.
The 1901 Census return form lists
Thomas Grogan head of the family 50
Winifred Grogan wfe 36
Patrick Grogan 11
Mary Kate Grogan 9 MY GRANDMOTHER
John Grogan 7
Winifred Grogan 2
As in the case of my other greastgrandparents, the returns for the 2011 Census could not be further from accurate.
1911:
Thomas Grogan head of the family 66 (6 years older than he should be)
Winifred Grogan wfe 52 (6 years older than she should be)
Patrick Grogan 21 (accurate)
Mary Kate Grogan 18 MY GRANDMOTHER (one year younger than she should be)
John Grogan 16 (one year younger than he should be)
Winifred Grogan 12 (accurate)
and three further children born after 1901:
Margaret Mary Grogan 9
Thomas Grogan 7
Michael Grogan 5
Thomas and Winnie were married 23 years in 1911 and 7 children survived out of 8.
Winifred Grogan's maiden name is uncertain but family sources seem to indicate that she was Winifred Creighton from Loughglynn. The Creighton's had a very large farm and Thomas Grogan was employed as a worker on the farm and that was how he is said to have met my grandmother Mary Kate.
An interesting observation between the 1901 and the 1911 Census return form is that they were both filled out in a different hand. The 1901 form refers to the wife as Winifred while the 1911 lists her as Winnie.
Thomas Grogan's signature also differs from one census to the next - whether one form was filled in by his wife and other by he, or his handwriting may have changed in between.
It is a shame that Census forms of that era never asked the wife's maiden name. How helpful that would be 100 years later when we are all finding it hard to put together an accurate family history.
The 1911 confirms that both Thomas and Winifred were born in Roscommon.
The childen of Thomas and Winifred Grogan:
according to family sources (not proven)
Patrick (also known as Pakie) emigrated to the US and never returned. But before he fled to the States, he went to the Bank and borrowed money against a farm in Clooneyvendon owned by his father. But he never repaid the money and his father, Thomas, had to buy it back from the bank.
Mary Kate (my grandmother) married Peter Dolan and lived in Clooneyvendon, outside Castlerea.
John married –––––––– Healy from Bradford, England.
Michael married Jo Kelly and lived in the home farm at Beagh.
If anyone can help me with any of the above I would be very grateful indeed.  Hopefully someone who has access to the birth records may be a very valuable contact, or fellow Grogan researchers who may be able to go back in generations even further.

5
Roscommon / Michael Dolan was from Arm, Ballinapark, Castlerea
« on: Saturday 16 July 16 11:35 BST (UK)  »
Hope someone can help me here.
My greatgrandfather Michael Dolan was from Arm, Ballinapark, Castlerea, County Roscommon.
Listed on the 1901 Census form as:
Michael Dolan (head of household) age 40
Mary Ann (wife) age 40
Peter Dolan (my grandfather) age 20
Emmm Dolan age 18
Frances Dolan age 16
Mary Jane Dolan age 14
Bridget Dolan age 12
Patrick Dolan age 10
John Dolan age 9
Micheal Dolan age 7
Martha Dolan age 3
Thomas Dolan age 1
THIS IS THE EASY BIT (or at least what I thought was a great start!)
The 1911 Census – which should show an increase in age for each person of 10 years (unless of course any of the family was born between the end of March and first two days in April as the 1901 census was taken on 31/3/1901 and the 1911 census was taken on 2/4/1911.
For some inexplicable reason, the ages are way out as below . . .
Michael Dolan (head of household) age 58
Mary Ann (wife) age looks like 35, but I presume it is is 55
Peter Dolan (my grandfather) age 28
Emmm Dolan NOT LISTED
Frances Dolan NOT LISTED
Mary Jane Dolan NOT LISTED
Bridget Dolan age 20
Patrick Dolan age 18
John Dolan age 16
Micheal Dolan age 14
Martha Dolan age 12
Thomas Dolan age 10
The fact that Emma, Frances and Mary were not listed meant they had either left home or stayed the night in another house on the night of the census in 1911.
Mary Jane is said to have become a nun and moved to England, so it is very likely  she had already began her sisterhood at that time.
Frances (or Fanny as she was known to the family) is said to have moved to Belfast and again this may have been the reason she may have not been listed.
Emma (was known as Minnie) was possibly married in 1911 and living with her husband Tommy Cuddy in Howth.
Michael Dolan's wife was Mary Ann Brown and she died on the 14th March 1937, at Arm, Ballinapark, Castlerea, County Roscommon. The cause of death was recorded on her death certificate as myocarditis – 10 days cardiac failure certified. Her death was reported by Martha Dolan, her daughter who was present at her death. Her age at last birthday was listed as 74 years of age.
If this is true, her date of birth would have been 1863 and in matching dates, I found an entry which I hope to be her. She was christened on on the 14th June.
Her father’s name was Edward Brown.
Her mother was Ellen Kennedy.
She was christened at: Catholic Parish: Kiltoom & Cam, Civil Parish: Kiltoom, Catholic Diocese: Elphin. The Sponsors were Thomas Kennedy and Ellen O’Neill
And a further search of her parents gave me a listing for:
Edward Brown and Ellen Kennedy were married  on 18/9/1858
Catholic Parish: Kiltoom & Cam, Civil Parish: Kiltoom, Catholic Diocese: Elphin.
Family sources (deceased) said that when my grandfather Michael Dolan and Mary Brown married, there were 50 sidecars at the wedding - an indication of how popular either or both of them were at the time. It is also said that Michael was a Herd for O'Connor Don.
Michael and Mary's children:
Martha (also known as Mattie) stayed at home in the old family house and never married.
Peter the eldest married my grandmother Mary Kate Grogan, on the 9th June 1914 in St. Patrick’s Catholic Church, Castlerea, County Roscommon. Peter was listed on the marriage certificate as a farmer and Mary Kate as a farmer’s daughter. Peter’s address was Clooneyvendon, a few miles from Castlerea, where he had purchased a house and farm and Mary Kate was from Behy. Thomas Grogan was Mary Kate’s father, who was also a farmer. Peter and Mary Kate continued to reside at Clooneyvendon after this date. She was affectionately known all her life as Molly.
My mother, Mary (or Mae) was the eldest daughter of Peter and Molly.
I realise this is a very long post and contains a lot of names, but I am hoping that either the older or later generations may attract some interest among readers.
I am baffled at the age difference in the census records. If they were out by a year on one or two entries it would not look so strange, but the 1911 entries are way off in most cases.
I was wondering if there were any members who may have the baptism files or transcripts for Castlerea and may be able to find dates of birth for any of the above mentioned family names.
Also I am hoping that there are other Dolan researchers out there who may be related in some way and that we can share our resources. And/or Brown family researchers who may be able to confirm or build on any of the information I have found about my greatgrandmother Mary Ann Brown. Please bear in mind that perhaps her name was spelt Mary 'Anne'.
if you have got this far, thank you for your interest in reading my quest to find more accurate answers and I hope to hear back from anyone who can help me add more accurate details to my family history.  I am currently living in Perth, Australia which makes it very hard to research from afar. If I were in Ireland there is nothing I would like to do more than delve into the files available there. Thank you in advance for any assistance or explanation of the discrepancies on the two census forms.
Attached is the only family photo I have. Michael Dolan is pictured top left and Mary Ann is in the centre of the photo with the white top. I believe the photo was taken at the old house at Arm on an occasion when their daughter (a nun) had returned from England to visit.


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