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Topics - ghostnorris

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Yorkshire (West Riding) / Help finding both people in a Harrogate marriage
« on: Wednesday 27 June 18 23:18 BST (UK)  »
I'm looking for both parties in a marriage. The certificate states this:

Married: 5th April 1927
District: Knaresborough
Groom: Leslie Baker
Groom's age: 22
Condition: Bachelor
Profession: Motor Mechanic
Residence: 97 Valley Drive, Harrogate
Groom's Father: Charles Baker (deceased)
Groom's Father's Profession: Builder

Bride: Doris Maughan, otherwise Taylor
Age: 22
Condition: Spinster
Profession: Waitress
Residence: 25 Burke Street, Harrogate
Father: None stated
Father's Profession: None stated

People Present: Samuel Stanley North and Alan Mais (?)

I have a theory as to the groom's identity. There is no Leslie Baker born in the area in 1906-1908, and no Leslie Baker (without a middle name) in the entire England and Wales census born in those years with a father named Charles. However, there *is* a Leslie Baker born in Harrogate in 1911. This Leslie Baker's certificate names no father, but names his mother as Gladys Baker. The address is 47a Denmark Street, Harrogate.

Now, this birth is slightly after the 1911 census, but Gladys is easily found as living, unmarried, with her parents, her father being a Charles H Baker, a bricklayer. This Charles H Baker is also the only Charles Baker who has died in the Knaresborough district by 1929, when Leslie Baker and Doris Maughan/Taylor were married.

So, to recap, the marriage certificate states Leslie Baker's father, Charles, as deceased in 1929. The only Charles Baker to have died in the region by that date is the maternal grandfather of the *other* Leslie Baker, born a couple of years later. Both Charleses were builders/bricklayers.

So, my theory is that both Leslies are the same person. Out of embarrassment at actually being younger than his bride, he lied about his age to match hers. He doesn't know his real father, but was brought up by his maternal grandfather, whom his mother was certainly living with when he was born.

I just hope I'm not reaching too far with this.

As for his wife, Doris Maughan otherwise Taylor, I'm unable to find who she might be in the 1911 census. Any help would be appreciated.

2
Other Countries / How should I go about researching an Indian lineage?
« on: Monday 30 April 18 19:38 BST (UK)  »
I'm trying to find out about a Mary Josephine Stewart, born 1874 in Burma (I think).

The only census I've found her in is 1911, as Mary Josephine Loveday in Tanshelf and Carleton, Pontefract district, Yorkshire. She's living in a barracks (Yorkshire and Lancashire regiment) with her two children. Her husband, William Henry Loveday, born 1877, Doncaster, is recorded separately, but in the same barracks.

From what I can make out, Mary Josephine's birth place says Burmah. Her later daughter, Hilda Mary Loveday, born 1912, Pontefract has her mother's maiden name as Marshall, yet from the one public tree she's in, her maiden name seems to be Stewart, with Marshall being the name of her first husband. If so, then there's a marriage of a Henry William Lavedey (sic) and a Mary Josephine Marshall in Mhow, India in 1903, and her father is named as Charles James Stewart. However, beyond this, I can't find a record of her birth or her father's presence in India at all. I'm unfamiliar with researching India, so is there anything extra I can do?

3
I've encountered an instance of a father's name and profession being left blank (drawn a line through), even though who his father was was very clear. His parents were married and had been for over a decade before his birth, and he got his middle name from his father's first name (Gilbert). I'm not sure whether the father left the family at any point, but he died in the same city as his son's birth several years after said marriage record in which his name is omitted.

Could this be a case of bad blood, or of the son learning that his on-paper father wasn't his biological one? Presumably this wasn't known at birth, since he wouldn't have been given his father's name as a middle name. Any thoughts?

4
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Looking for the mother of Caroline Krammer
« on: Saturday 10 February 18 05:13 GMT (UK)  »
She was born Caroline Kramer or Lisette Caroline Kramer (although the only place Lisette is ever used is in the birth index), in Keighley in December 1854, and married as Caroline Krammer, daughter of Louis Krammer, a pork butcher, in Birstall in 1876, to William Broscomb(e). I managed to find what's probably her father in the 1851 census living in Sheffield as Louis Kramer, born in Germany, 1830, occupation journeyman pork butcher. He married a Rose Lair in 1854 as Ludwig Kramer, in Bradford. Rose Lair is Caroline's mother. However, I can't find them on any census as a family, nor can I find Rose anywhere at all. Lair doesn't exist as a surname in Britain and is possibly a spelling error of Lehr, meaning she is also probably German, but when I search for German-born Roses, I don't get much.

One strange lead I found is the Limbach/Limback family. I'll bold the similarities. In 1861, there is a Louis Limbach living in Hull with his wife, with the initials R M. His profession is pork butcher. Two of his children were born in Bradford. There is, however, no Caroline. In 1871 a Limback family is living in Bradford, yet the head's name is George, a shoemaker, but the wife is Rose. A couple of their children were born in Hull, yet there is no Leonard (possibly dead?) and no Caroline. Their daughter, Catherine, was born around the same time as Caroline, give or take, but she was born in Germany, after Caroline's parents were already in England.

Could they be the same people who liked to change their names a lot, including from Louis to George, from Caroline to Catherine and then back to Caroline again, and changing the patriarch's life-long (and ancestral, since his father, too, was a pork butcher) occupation to something completely different in the space of ten years?

5
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Need help finding a marriage
« on: Tuesday 06 February 18 01:39 GMT (UK)  »
I'm looking for the marriage of Thomas Eccles' parents. Thomas is found on the 1911 census living in Denaby, Yorkshire, born 1910, Denaby Main, son of Haller/Waller/Walter Eccles, born abt. 1870, Castleford, Yorkshire and Annie (Horton), born abt. 1874, Tunstall, Staffordshire.

Thomas' birth certificate has his mother's maiden name as Horton and his father's first name as Walter (despite variations on this on at least two censuses), and the 1911 census has the marriage of his parents being about 1898. But I just can't find it, and I need it to identify Annie's family, since there's no obvious Tunstall family that is hers.

I don't know where they married, but their first child was born in the Rotherham area. There is a Walter Eccles married in Rotherham in 1899, but not to an Annie or any variation thereof.

I'm fairly sure Walter Eccles is the one shown in 1871 as born in 1870 in Whitwood, Yorkshire, son of T Eccles (Thomas) and Mary, so it's just Annie's family I can't find, so the marriage certificate is essential.

6
I'm looking for the parents of Maria Moscow, born 1855 in Ashton-Under-Lyne. I can't locate a birth record or a census find prior to her marriage to Wright Platt. I'm currently waiting for the marriage certificate. Other trees seem to think she is sister to John, William and Ellen Moscoe/Moscow, who can be found living with their widowed mother in 1871, though Maria is not living with them. Moreover, the birth index of John, William, and Ellen are also not to be found, nor is any earlier census record than 1871. Adding to this, there seems to be no death or remarriage record for their mother, or any record of the death (or birth) of William Moscoe/Moscow, the father stated on several of the siblings' marriage certificates, nor of any marriage between a William Moscoe/Moscow and a Margaret (the sibling's mother).

Margaret, the mother, was Irish, so it's possible that William was too, though the name Moscoe or Moscow is more or less unrecorded in Ireland, and is rare enough in England. There's a spattering of Moscoes in the Lancashire records, but finds are patchy and don't show much sign of a continuous lineage in the area (or anywhere else). Most Moscow families are descendants of recent Jewish immigrants and only appeared in Britain several decades after Maria's birth. There's minimal evidence of Moscows before that time, and when it occurs it seems to be a variation of Moscoe.

I've considered the possibility that all siblings were born out of wedlock and that William Muscoe/Moscow was an invention, which I've seen happen before, but Margaret does claim to be widowed in 1871, and I've not seen lies on a census before. Possibly the Muscoe/Moscow surname was invented after the birth of all children, hence no birth records. But that wouldn't explain the lack of death records for the mother (or father). It also doesn't help me find the family in 1861, since I've searched for the family using only birth dates and birth places, with the surname omitted. Also, I've checked all births in the stated years for each sibling, and none seem to be mistranscriptions of anything close to Muscoe or Moscow.

Any help would be appreciated.


7
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Looking for mother of Fred Bourne, b. 1887, Leeds
« on: Friday 15 December 17 21:02 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, I'm having trouble finding Fred Bourne's mother, Annie Maria Bourne. I can't find Fred in childhood on any census, although I can find him in adulthood, married, on the 1911 census. His birth record was easy to find, and it states his father was unknown, and that he was living with his mother at 24 Florist Street, Leeds. I was unable to find this street in the 1881 or 1891 censuses, but this is mostly because I don't know how to specify a street to look at on Ancestry. I was able to find the other side of the street, but that's all. I believe his mother is likely the Anna Maria Bourne who married either William Hodges or Robert George Coates in 1889. This knowledge hasn't helped me find her in any census, though.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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