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Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms / Family Crest Identification Help Please!
« on: Wednesday 04 March 09 08:55 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if you can help, I am trying to identify who had the right to a crest and motto in the 1850's. This is the very first time that I have ever attempted any family history research and I have a very limited knowledge of heraldry (gleaned over the past few days from the internet and local library) and don't understand a lot of the terminology so feel that I have got as far as I can without some kind soul helping me.
Although I have no idea of the correct terms the crest shows what I would describe as a griffin standing in profile looking to the left and holding a swrd, the motto is "Malo mori quam fodaria". I have managed to find from a copy of Burke's General Armory (published 1884 I think) and from that think the crest and motto are
Crest: A griffin sergeant az. holding a swrd
Motto: Malo mori quam fodaria
Although the motto appears several times there is only one crest that sounds like the one I can see. From Burke's the crest and motto appears to belong to George Ryan of Inch House, Co. Tipperary. Unfortunately the item that holds the crest and motto is dated 1850 - 1858 and this is to late for George Ryan.
Basically I have no idea who this crest and motto belonged to but would like to know if it is possible to trace the person or people who had the right to use it (or if it is generic to the Ryan name)? I appreciate that there is probably a simple answer but I don't understand about the process of granting crests or if it is possible to trace an individual from one.
The person who carried the crest in the 1850-1858 period was an officer in the East India Company's Bengal Artillery, but in that period there was more than one Ryan serving, hence my desire to know if the crest/motto can be linked to one person (Thaddeus Richard Ryan of Scarteen House, Limerick and Edward Henry Ryan, born in Bengal but possibly of Irish descent are my two contenders).
Sorry for the rambling question but I wanted to get as much information down as I have to find out if there is more available. Apologies for any cross posting as I initially posted a different question in the Military section but on reflection I think my real question is one of heraldry (I think), so I hope that I have put this in the right place (moderators please feel free to close my other post if you think it appropriate). Any help at all would be gratefully received.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope that I have made some sense.
Ian
Although I have no idea of the correct terms the crest shows what I would describe as a griffin standing in profile looking to the left and holding a swrd, the motto is "Malo mori quam fodaria". I have managed to find from a copy of Burke's General Armory (published 1884 I think) and from that think the crest and motto are
Crest: A griffin sergeant az. holding a swrd
Motto: Malo mori quam fodaria
Although the motto appears several times there is only one crest that sounds like the one I can see. From Burke's the crest and motto appears to belong to George Ryan of Inch House, Co. Tipperary. Unfortunately the item that holds the crest and motto is dated 1850 - 1858 and this is to late for George Ryan.
Basically I have no idea who this crest and motto belonged to but would like to know if it is possible to trace the person or people who had the right to use it (or if it is generic to the Ryan name)? I appreciate that there is probably a simple answer but I don't understand about the process of granting crests or if it is possible to trace an individual from one.
The person who carried the crest in the 1850-1858 period was an officer in the East India Company's Bengal Artillery, but in that period there was more than one Ryan serving, hence my desire to know if the crest/motto can be linked to one person (Thaddeus Richard Ryan of Scarteen House, Limerick and Edward Henry Ryan, born in Bengal but possibly of Irish descent are my two contenders).
Sorry for the rambling question but I wanted to get as much information down as I have to find out if there is more available. Apologies for any cross posting as I initially posted a different question in the Military section but on reflection I think my real question is one of heraldry (I think), so I hope that I have put this in the right place (moderators please feel free to close my other post if you think it appropriate). Any help at all would be gratefully received.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope that I have made some sense.
Ian