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Dear 'Moors'

Thank you so much for your most helpful reply to my inquiry ---- which I am almost ashamed to admit I have only today logged on and read. 

Percy

1841 Christchurch Street HO107/398
William Langer head 30 tailor
Charlotte   "     wife   30
Charlotte                     9
William                         8
George                        6
Walter                         4
Selena                         1

1841  Elms Poulner                       
Charles Langer            20 Male servant

1841 Up Street
Ann Langer                  60 Shopkeeper
Mary                             20
Jane                              20 dressmakerer

1841 Up Street
John langer                   25 Carpenter
Ann                               25
Henry                              4
Ann                                 2

I am sitting in the library at Ringwood when I saw your request. Unfortunately I have not been able to find the 1851 census here making enquiries. Ann

Looks more like a piece of card/photo .

And her probable age  looks about right for "Granny"  given my guestimate of 1895ish for the picture.

PERCY

Hello Prue,

Its PERCY again.      I'm going to be dogmatic about this subject.

(1)  Your engraving was done Circa 1860-1865  --- compare the portrait of President Lincoln of the same      period.   That means, as I said before, this chap cannot have been born before 1815-1820.

(2)  He is not 'just any old person'.   Even poor quality engravings of the kind seen in publications of the time were expensive.  Your engraving is an excellent, high quality, COSTLY, portrait of a well dressed man with a gold (?) watch and chain, wedding(?) ring, and (possibly) a signet(?) ring.   A man decidedly of the relatively leisured, learned, and relatively affluent classes.

(3)  Unlike photographs, when objects (eg.the book) were shown in engraved or oil portraits, they were put there to indicate the occupation, interest, or 'claim to fame' of the individual concerned : NOT mere literacy.

(4)  Your man, therefore,  CANNOT  be the man you thought he was, but MAY be one of the two sons ?  He is the right age for that.

       Whoever he is, he was probably a scholar, an author or a poet.   Extremely unlikely to have been a
        lawyer -- because they were invariably shown as such ---- nor likely to have been engaged in industry.
        He could, just possibly have been engaged in some way in politics --- possibly in one of the reform
        movements of the time.

PERCY
                             

Hi Prue,

I have just come across this thread.

Looking at your picture, it seems to me EITHER, that it cannot be of the man you think it is OR, that your 1780's date is not correct.

Assuming the man in the picture to be between 40 and 50 years of age, then, judging by his costume, hair, clean-shaven upper lip, and beard ---- my guess is that the earliest he was born was about 1815 to 1820.

He does give the impression of being a clergyman.    Too emaciated to have been an industrialist or businessman of the period : and too other-worldly looking to be a lawyer.

Early photographs almost as a rule feature one or more books -- intended to show that the subject was literate.     HOWEVER !  Engravings , particularly portrait engravings  mounted in books, did not do so for the obvious reason that the subject invariably was literate.

In your instance, I think the inclusion of the book indicates a connection between the man and the book --- or books in general.    An Author, Poet, or Clergyman perhaps ?

PERCY