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Messages - Joanne Welch

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1
Aberdeenshire / Re: Clarke of Aberdeen
« on: Wednesday 23 November 11 11:01 GMT (UK)  »
Hi Graham,

No evidence, sadly - just a hunch. They married in Onchan, Isle of Man, when Jane was abt 21, so unless she had emigrated there as a  single woman, they either met in Aberdeenshire, where she was from, or else the families knew each other. I read that there were prominent Clarkes in several parts of Scotland, including Aberdeen, so I wondered if they were linked.

(At the same level as John Clarke's parents in this branch of my family tree are minor nobility and landowners of Yorkshire, Cumberland and Aberdeenshire. In other parts of my family tree are miners and impoverished labourers. I just have to think differently for this branch!)

Best regards,

Joanne

2
Aberdeenshire / Clarke of Aberdeen
« on: Tuesday 22 November 11 19:47 GMT (UK)  »
I am searching for my ancestor John Clarke, born in 1779 in Scotland, probably  Aberdeen.

He married Jane Ogilvie, daughter of George Ogilvie 4th of Auchiries on the Isle of Man and they had Eliza Clarke who married Lister William Ellis, descendant of Graham Baronets, Earls, Dukes and Kings.

I therefore suspect the Clarke family  would probably have been fairly important in the past. John was a wine and spirit merchant and held the Earl of Lonsdale steam packet agency in Douglas. He was also one of the first trustees of the Athol Street chapel. I would love to know about his family.

3
Denbighshire / Re: Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Tuesday 11 October 11 17:58 BST (UK)  »
Is anyone a member of the Genealogist site  please?

Following the excellent help of William Russell Jones and others I logged on to the clwydfhs.org and asked the publishers (listed as genfair) if it would give the mother's names of all children baptised in Wrexham in the relevant period. They told me no, I"d have to order the birth cert.

I explained my problem: at least 10 candidates for John Jones.

But a very kind genfair researcher, Emma, contacted me saying they had an 1851 Denbighshire census showing:

Surname      Forename      Age      Relation
Davies    W                     44             Head
Davies    Ellen             9            Daughter
Davies    R                     7            Son
Davies    J                    5           Son

I can't find this on ancestry. Can anyone find it on the Genealogist site please? I'd love to know where William (I assume) the dad was born, the brothers' names (Robert? John?) and where they were living in 1851. Having resubscribed to ancestry for a month, and bought the wedding cert copy, I've blown my pre-Christmas genealogy budget already!

Thanks so much,

Jo

4
Denbighshire / Re: Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Friday 07 October 11 19:15 BST (UK)  »
Thanks again.

Jo

5
Denbighshire / Re: Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Friday 07 October 11 18:00 BST (UK)  »
One more thought everyone. Christening records are available aplenty in Cheshire, where some of my fairly recent ancestors were born. There are none here it seems, but was that because it was an industrial area, like Manchester, where others of my recent ancestors were born, without being christened (and in one frustrating case, even registered)?

Jo

6
Denbighshire / Re: Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Friday 07 October 11 16:45 BST (UK)  »
Thanks so much for all the help again.

It's interesting to know that they were buried at Esclusham , because in the 1881 census Ellen, John's widow and children are living in 105, Hallum Row, Esclusham Below, so I guess they moved there from Gwersyllt (where they lived in 1871) sometime in the 1870s.

I therefore suppose it was their new local cemetery - although soon after Ellen and the children still living at home followed Mary to the Salford area - moving to Irlam. In 1886 Mary married a Salford barber, but his business and their home was in the notorious Hanky Park, where cholera and typhoid were rife, and her husband shaved a man with typhoid, caught it and died in 1891, so the family had lots of tragedy, as did so many at that time.

As for his age, Ruskie, I can't easily get to Holy Trinity Rhostyllen in the near future (though I may some day) but his death registration is Jul-Aug-Sep 1880 giving his age at death as 40. So he must have been born late 1839 or before 3 Aug 1840.

BTW William - I have tried marriages between the fathers and Lloyds and can't find any very likely candidates - just a possible Ellen, child of William Davies and Elinor Lloyd of Denbighshire, but she's 15 years older than mine and NO-ONE could lie about their age that much - could they? I've hopefully contacted the tree owner, but am not holding out much hope.

Thanks so much everyone.

Jo

7
Denbighshire / Re: Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Friday 07 October 11 13:16 BST (UK)  »
Thanks so much for your help, Carole and William. I didn't know the 1841 census for Wrexham was lost. That explains a lot.

I cannot identify John Jones's birth registration, Carole, since there are SO many babies of that name born in Wrexham, but in the 1861 census he says he was born in Gwersyllt in 1839. In the 1871 census he says he was born in 1841 in Poolmouth. His age at his 11 Feb 1861 wedding is given as full. My mum was told he died in a mining accident before his daughter Mary moved to Salford, and I guess he might be the John Jones dying in the Glan-yr-afon colliery, Bersham on 3 Aug 1880, but his profession is given on a mining disasters website as fireman, and my grt-grt grandad was definitely a collier - all the family knew that.

Regarding Ellen Davies, William, well spotted on the 1861 census birthplace being given as Bersham. In 1871 she gives Kings Mills, FLINTSHIRE, in 1881 Kings Mills, Wrexham, Denbighshire, in 1891 she names Wrexham as her birthplace. According to Google maps, the Kings Mills hotel, Wrexham is 3.4 miles from Bersham. Does that strike you as right?

Many thanks for all your help,

Jo

8
Denbighshire / Wrexham Jones Davies 1860s and earlier
« on: Thursday 06 October 11 21:58 BST (UK)  »
My ancestors John Jones, a coal miner and Ellen Davies, married in St Giles, Wrexham on 11th Feb 1861, giving their fathers as Edward Jones, a collier and William Davies, a labourer. I don't know anything about their mothers or forebears and would love to. Can anybody help please?

John says he was born in Poolmouth and Gwersyllt, both Wrexham, on different censuses. The best bet from earlier census data for John's dad appears to be Edward Jones, a collier - in 1851 with an 8 yr old son John, but in 1861 his son John, a collier, is now 18, unmarried and living with him, whilst John and Ellen my ancestors are living on Poolmouth Rd, Wrexham, a few doors down from their wedding witnesses Joseph and Jane Lloyd.  So I've had to rule that family out.

The best bet for Ellen seems to be William Davies a carpenter in 1841, then a wheelwright in 1851, but his daughter Ellen is 4 years too old - my Ellen consistently gives her birth year as 1842 - and she was born in Llanddoget, though still in Denbighshire, a long way from Kings Mills, Wrexham, where my Ellen said she was born. Intriguingly her elder sister is called Jane, so I've tried to find a marriage for her to John Lloyd. There isn't one, but there is a Ruabon marriage between a Jane Davies and a Jenkin Lloyd (could he have called himself John?)

So I can't find ideal fits from census data. Can anyone please help?

Many thanks,

Jo Welch


9
The Common Room / Edward and John Jones and Ellen Davies Wrexham 1860s
« on: Wednesday 05 October 11 13:55 BST (UK)  »
Please can anyone help regarding my ancestor John Jones, a Wrexham collier born abt 1839 in Gwersyllt, son of Edward Jones, also a collier ? John married Ellen Davies (daughter of William Davies a labourer) in Wrexham Parish Church 11th Feb 1861 (witnesses Joseph and Jane Lloyd). He died in an 1880 mining accident, I believe, after which Ellen and her children moved to Irlam, Lancashire.

From census data Joseph Lloyd also seems to be a Wrexham collier. I wonder if he was John's friend or if Jane was the sister of John or Ellen?

Does anyone know please?

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